Corrina Cross | 00:00  
I think when we are born in a particular country and we live there for quite a number of years, we are like a piece of the jigsaw and we fit into that jigsaw beautifully. And I think once we leave our original country and the longer we stay away, the more our piece of jigsaw changes so that when we go back, it doesn't fit into that jigsaw anymore. 
So I feel as though we should create a new jigsaw called Citizens of the World. And each one of us will have a beautiful piece of the jigsaw that fits in perfectly. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 00:42  
Welcome to the Cultural Agility Podcast, where we explore the stories of some of the most advanced intercultural practitioners from around the world to help you become culturally agile and succeed in today's culturally complex world. I'm your host, Marco Blankenberg, International Director of Knowledgeworks, where every day we help individuals and companies achieve relational success in that same complex world. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 01:10  
Welcome everybody to this new episode of our podcast. And I'm very excited today because a friend, colleague, partner of ours has agreed to join us. 
So Corinna, welcome to this podcast. And in this podcast, we're talking about our intercultural lives, but our professional lives as well as the rest of our lives, because intercultural is everywhere. 
So thank you, Corinna, for joining us. And I'm looking forward to this conversation. And maybe without me doing much of an introduction, if you could introduce yourself to our audience today. 
Corrina Cross | 01:49  
Sure. Thanks, Marco. And thank you for inviting me onto the show. 
So my name is Corinna Cross and I've been in the region for well in Dubai for 27 years and in the Middle East for many more years than that. And I help business owners and managers to create basically happy and productive teams by improving their people skills. 
So that's in a nutshell what I do and why I've come across intercultural intelligence and embraced it. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 02:21  
That's great. Wow. 27 years in the Gulf region. 
So how did you arrive into this region? You don't seem to be one of the Gulf nationals. How did you end up in the region? 
Corrina Cross | 02:37  
To be honest, the first time I came to the region was at age 13. My father worked in Doha. Now, this is going to show my age. I was living in Doha before they had English speaking schools. 
So my sister and brother and I had to do correspondence course. And later, we lived in Egypt for five years. 
So initially, I was in the Middle East because of my father and his job and travel as a family. And then later, I decided that I would explore Dubai and came to the region. And I took a look at it and as a lot of people stayed for many years longer. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 03:19  
Right. So it sounds like you've been exposed and lived in quite a few countries around the region. And I see this often with people who have had an expat life for such a long time. 
So I'm curious if you had to explain who you are as a cultural human being, what would you say? How would you introduce yourself? 
Corrina Cross | 03:42  
Well, I've caught myself recently saying that I'm English, as in I have a British passport, but I don't feel very British. And I've said that I think when we are born in a particular country, and we live there for quite a number of years, we are like a piece of the jigsaw. And we fit into that jigsaw beautifully. And I think once we leave our original country, and we, the longer we stay away, the more our piece of jigsaw changes. 
So when we go back, it doesn't fit into that jigsaw anymore. And of course, living in the UAE, we cannot become Emiratis. 
So we don't fit into the UAE jigsaw. So I feel as though we should create a new jigsaw called Citizens of the World. And each one of us will have a beautiful piece of the jigsaw that fits perfectly. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 04:32  
I love that. Yeah, because you are very much a global citizen, knowing you for all these many years. And I'm curious, intercultural was already important in your life before you might have been exposed to intercultural intelligence before, you know, being exposed to the language of the framework and the assessments and everything. 
So how did intercultural from what you remember, how did it become part of your life? And where did it feature from memory? 
Corrina Cross | 05:00  
Well, I suppose, by name, as you said, by name, I came into contact with it about 2010. That's how long, well, we've known each other for longer than that. But that's when I became a practitioner. And it was only doing that practitioner course that I realized, my goodness, I have experienced miscommunication from different cultures for many years. I have Iranian blood in my family. They have Iranian members of the family, but they, you know, moved to England when they were young. And, you know, my father's half English, half Iranian. And growing up, I just thought I was in a British family that, you know, were born, some of them were born elsewhere. And we were raised as British people. I felt that we were doing British things and behaving in a British way. And I didn't know any difference until I came across intercultural intelligence. And I realized, my goodness, that there was so much misunderstanding within the family. That from the Iranian side, there was a lot of shame and honor, who treat families differently and who have different importance on different things from the innocence guilt culture. And so, yeah. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 06:08  
And just for our audience, you're alluding to honor, shame, innocence, guilt, which is part of the three colors of worldview. And that indicates that you've incorporated the language of the intercultural framework. When you first got exposed to it, you already mentioned that it sort of shone a spotlight on stuff that happened in the family. In what other way did ICI become attractive to you? 
Corrina Cross | 06:35  
Well, I've always been a people person. In fact, I realized that at school, I used to look around the kids in the class and think, why is that guy so loud? Maybe he's nervous and he's trying to overcome his nervousness. I was always trying to work out why people were the way they were. And as you know, I think it was 2009, I became a facilitator for personality types and understanding people at a different level was so amazing and such an eye opener that I think intercultural intelligence was a natural progression from. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 07:06  
There. And you've been working with the intercultural intelligence framework for many years. And I'm just wondering, how does that impact you personally? As you look at the framework, you make it part of you intellectually, but it seems in your case, it's much deeper than that. 
So how does it impact you personally? 
Corrina Cross | 07:32  
Well, it helps me to understand people. And so I'm constantly thinking, not just what did that person do? How did they behave? But why would they have behaved in that way? And I think, well, I think I absolutely know it makes me so understanding of people. In fact, to this day, friends call me when they're having a disagreement with somebody. They call me to help me. What do they say? Your voice of reason. But what they mean is, you know, help me look at this from a different angle. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 08:01  
That's beautiful. Now, one of the things that we advocate with our intercultural intelligence work is this idea that yes, we all might have a nationality, we might have an ethnic background, or we might have a certain racial affiliation, for instance. But at the same time, we're saying that every person has their own unique cultural wiring. You already alluded to having lived in multiple countries, having mixed heritage, at least from a nationality point of view in your family. What does that mean to you that every person has their own unique cultural wiring? How important is that for you? 
Corrina Cross | 08:42  
It's extremely important because people are so often clumped together and described as, you know, British people are like that, Indians are like that, Germans are like that, whatever the topic they're talking about. And years ago, that was not the case. And now it's really not the case because just because a person has a German passport or whatever it is, doesn't identify them at all. And so it's so important that we understand that person and his or her individual culture. And it just rang to mind now that with us, you know, working remotely, it's even more important or it's more challenging, put it that way. It's so important for us to understand the individual culture of everybody we're working with. But now it's more difficult to do that. And so people should really, you know, look at the way they're wording their emails or, you know, how they behave on Zoom calls to get to know and understand that individual fully. It's. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 09:50  
Fascinating you mentioned that because I've heard people say exactly the opposite. It's like, now we're all on Zoom, we're not in each other's space anymore. 
So we need to pay less attention to this intercultural stuff. You're saying the opposite, apparently. 
Corrina Cross | 10:04  
Yeah, whether it's personalities or cultures, I think now it's so important that we look for those little differences because people need to feel, they still need to feel heard. They still need to feel as though they belong. And so I'm helping clients to look at how emails are written, look how WhatsApp messages are written, look how willing people are to open the camera, turn the camera on, be visible, not be visible, how they interact in a Zoom meeting. 
So it's really helping them to look at those micro messages to understand their employees better. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 10:43  
Very important and almost sounds like a new skill set that we need to learn at a more fine -tuned level. And in that sense, you work as a facilitator, consultant, advisor. Tell me a little bit more about what you do from a professional point of view. 
Corrina Cross | 11:02  
Well, I deliver a range of people skills. And so when a client, I often work with large corporates and in recent times, it's more business owners as well who are wanting to build stronger teams and understand their employees better. And so I usually listen to their challenge. And once they tell me where they're facing the challenges, then I can identify, is it because the personalities are clashing? Is it because there are so many cultures and they don't all understand each other? Is it about the communication? Are they giving feedback in a way that's respected or received in the right way? 
So I kind of make a cocktail to really what I call hit the nail on the head and deliver the right program or the right training to meet their needs. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 11:50  
And obviously, as you do that, every opportunity to deliver those services starts with a conversation. And you sort of alluded to it earlier on, but I'm curious, how would you use your cultural agility or intercultural intelligence in engaging with the client? What's different? What are you listening for? What type of questions are you asking? How does it help you engage the client? 
Corrina Cross | 12:18  
Well, to start with, I have oodles of empathy. So I think that if you add empathy plus the knowledge of personality types and the knowledge of intercultural intelligence, it really helps me to stand in the shoes of the client. And I actually believe that people who are cultural learners like myself, because you know as well as I do, there are people who have lived overseas for many years, but they still are not cultural learners. They still believe that their culture is better than others. 
So for somebody like myself who's very open, I think we absorb differences and we adapt and adjust the way we communicate with people without even realizing it anymore. I think we become chameleons, but not in a fake way, but just something inside us helps us to relate to those individuals in a way that is respectful in their culture. Does that make sense? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 13:20  
Totally. And I love that combination that you mentioned, empathy, deeper understanding of personality, behavioral styles, as well as an understanding of the intercultural wiring of the person in front of you. I think that's a huge, powerful way to shine light on the relationship, on the issues that the client is facing. 
So I love that. Could you maybe give one example of how that plays out? In which way does ICI make a difference in your work and what you do with clients? 
Corrina Cross | 13:53  
Well, one answer that immediately springs to mind is that there is no one size fits all. And whether it's a training company that comes to me asking me to put a course together or a client coming to me, I think initially they think, here we go, because I ask so many questions to really dig deep and understand what are the challenges that they actually are facing so that I can deliver the right program. I've worked a lot with engineers, predominantly from the Western world, who do business with people in the oil and gas, you know, clients in the oil and gas industry that are very much from the Middle East. And it's so wonderful to see the penny drop when their minds open and they realize my goodness, how I've been communicating with my clients, how I've been behaving with my clients, how I've been tapping my watch and saying, it's time, you know, for the meeting to start or the meeting to end. It's so wonderful for those aha moments and then to realize just how differently they could have done things and what better response they could have got. And one thing I tell all my clients, all my participants when it comes to personalities or intercultural intelligence is there is no right or wrong. There is only different. And if we start by opening our minds to there isn't a right way or a wrong way, there's my way, there's your way, but you know, they're just different ways of doing things. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 15:20  
Yeah. It's fascinating to hear you connect your life story to how you make that valuable in your professional life as well. What about your circle? 
I mean, we all have been in various versions of lockdown, so human connect is limited, but can you use ICI cultural agility with friends and family as well? You mentioned earlier on that sometimes people call you to shed more intercultural light on issues they're facing, but almost created the impression that was like professional advice, but does it happen in any circle of friends, neighborhood, whatever? Do you have an example of that? 
Corrina Cross | 16:06  
Well, actually, this is probably an unusual example. And I was even thinking of not writing a book about it, but I was shocked to think that I don't think anybody has looked at this topic in this way. And I'll share with you that a friend of mine had big problems with mother -in -law. And you know, you hear mother -in -law jokes all over the world. It's, you know, every nationality, every culture, you know, makes fun of mothers -in -law at some stage. And as I was helping her to understand the mother -in -law's point of view and to look at differences, I realized that actually this is intercultural intelligence because it's a cultural issue. I don't think anybody has connected the dots and thought a mother -in -law issue is actually a cultural issue because the mother and the son have, the mother has raised the son in a family where these are our traditions. This is the way we do things. And the new wife has been raised by her parents and that's the way they do things. 
And then you join forces and all of a sudden there's a clash because there's, it's our way of doing things, even if they're the same nationality and they've lived in the same country for years because it's the way they have been, you know, even traditions, Christmas, do you celebrate on the 24th or the 25th? Do you open all the presents at the same time? Or do you open a present every day for the next week? 
So it's quite fascinating. And I actually helped those friends understand not only is your mother -in -law challenge actually a cultural issue, but I helped them understand shame and honor as well, because they had a few different cultures going on in there. 
So yeah. And the funny thing is the mother -in -law is a friend of mine. And sometime later, the mother -in -law started telling me about shame and honor, this thing called shame and honor. And I was the one that explained it in the first place. 
So yes, it crops up in unusual places, Marco, but it's always useful. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 18:07  
It's fascinating. I love it. 
Yeah. It's true. When you think about either two homes coming together with mother -in -law, proverbially, typically in the middle, but when you have generations coming together, we've had people talking about generational differences and how helpful it is to even use the framework that we have to explain some of those differences. It creates a different conversation around old and young and finding that happens across the world, actually. Now, you've been in the ICI space now for 10 years plus, right? That's 2009. 
Yeah. It's that long already. 
So as you know, we have both ICI trainings and cultural agility development that you provide yourself as a practitioner, but we have certifications for people who really want to get into it either as a trainer or as a coach or as a facilitator. Somebody listening to this conversation with your 11 years plus knowledge of the subject, but a lifetime of experience in being an intercultural person, somebody is considering stepping into this, what would you say to them? Why should they even consider it? 
Corrina Cross | 19:27  
It opens up a whole new world. I'm actually coaching a gentleman at the moment who's Spanish, living in Spain, and he has been doing work lately since lockdown with a lot of people in Latin America. 
So yes, they speak Spanish, but boy, do they have different cultures. So now that the world is opening up and okay, here in the UAE, we do work with all different nationalities, all different cultures on a regular basis. It's nothing new for us, but even people who are living in Manchester and they've never left Manchester, now that the world has opened up to be dealing with people from all over the world so easily, just literally clicking on a Zoom call, I think it's so important to understand where the other person is coming from in order to build stronger relationships. I'm actually shocked at how long it has taken companies here in the Middle East to get on board with intercultural intelligence training. 
You know that it's been going for many years, but the real interest has only happened in recent years. So now it's only going to, life is changing so rapidly that I think it's important for those who care about their employees and care about the people that they're working with, whether they're coaching and they've got clients, to truly understand where people are coming from. Because you can take as much artificial intelligence as you can, but people skills are never going to go away. 
Well, certainly not in the near future. You need to. I think it's more important to work in parallel with artificial intelligence than less important. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 21:09  
I actually think, and some of the early signs are there, that artificial intelligence pushes us human beings or requires from us to reach a new level. Because the mundane is going to be taken by artificial intelligence machine learning, which means we will have to be an awful lot better at creativity, complex problem solving, collaboration, negotiating with each other about your idea versus my idea or a joint idea. 
So all these human skills will have to keep up, so to speak, with the machines. And that requires us to work together. As you said, the world is opening up. We're working together with everybody, even remotely. 
So doing all of that in a culturally savvy way, I see it happening all around me. So yeah. Now we've just come through the first year of a crisis that we've never seen in a few generations. 2021 Q1 is almost over. We're stepping into the next part of the year. Is there anything to be excited about? Anything that you look forward to in this year? 
Corrina Cross | 22:21  
Well, I'm always excited about things. I have a natural excitement for life. But what's something that just came to my mind is that now we are all working remotely and dealing with people in all different parts of the world. I'm actually collaborating with somebody in Toronto that's nine hours behind and New Zealand that's nine hours ahead. And so my days are spreading. And the thought that just came to my mind now, you know, the charity MSF, Mdecins Sans Frontières, which is, you know, doctors without borders. 
Well, I think we have a world without borders now. Yeah. 
You know, I'm communicating with these guys in Toronto and guys in New Zealand. There's no passport, there's no visa, there's no travel, there's no waiting in immigration, however much. I love travel. But now we have life without borders. And let me tell you, life without borders, we need to understand each other. Absolutely. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 23:15  
I agree. Yeah. Working across time zones has become so normal. 
You know, the time zone calculators and where daylight savings is kicking in and where not is a continuous part of our calendar screen. So, yeah. And in terms of your personal work, where do you see the opportunities and to have an impact in people's lives in this year? 
Corrina Cross | 23:38  
Well, I'm developing my own programs for years. I have been working with corporates and, you know, creating the perfect remedy to solve their challenges. I will continue to do that. And behind the scenes, I'm creating my own programs, all for people to understand their clients, their employees better, to be able to be more productive and happier. I think one thing that this last year has shone a light on is that life's too short. And, you know, we can be happy at work, can be doing work that plays to our strengths. 
So the more that we understand our clients and our colleagues, the happier we can all be and the productive we can be. So, yeah. And my individual programs will then, they're all to do with people's skills, including intercultural intelligence, and they will be obviously available to anybody on the planet. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 24:33  
Wonderful. Yeah, it definitely is a world without borders. And we've enjoyed working with you over all these years and seeing the places that you've had an impact in people's lives and in teams and in companies' lives. 
So it's beautiful to see how that has been unfolding. So thank you for your willingness to share your story today. And I hope people will look you up as well. We will have Karina's details available as well on the podcast channel. And thank you guys for listening in. More stories to come from our intercultural global network, beautiful people that are involved in fascinating work all around the globe. 
So look out for additional stories of people in a global world without borders, according to Karina, and a world where intercultural intelligence is making a difference in people's lives. Thank you for listening, guys. See you next time. 
Corrina Cross | 25:31  
Fantastic. Bye -bye. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 25:34  
Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of the Cultural Agility Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, share it with someone. The best way to help us out is by leaving a review on your favorite podcast app or channel, or forward and recommend this podcast to people around you. As always, if any of the topics we discussed today intrigue you will find links to articles discussing them in greater depth in the podcast notes. If you would like to learn more about intercultural intelligence and how you can become more culturally agile, you can find more information and hundreds of articles at knowledgeworks .com. A special thanks to Jason Carter for composing the music on this podcast, and to the whole Knowledgeworks team for making this podcast a success. Thank you Nita Rodriguez, Ara Azizbakian, Rajitha Raj, and thanks to Vipin George for audio production, Rosalind Raj for scheduling, and Caleb Strauss for marketing and helping produce this podcast.