Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Welcome to the Unlocking Cultural Agility Podcast, where we bring you insights and stories from some of the most advanced intercultural practitioners working around the world to help you become interculturally agile and succeed in today's culturally complex world. I'm your host, Marco Blankenberg, International Director of KnowledgeWorks, where every day we help individuals and companies achieve relational success in that same complex world. Well, welcome everyone. Today I have the opportunity once again to uh sit down with Andrew Dyst from Planet Two Partners. And it's been a privilege to work with Andrew over the years on a variety of projects particularly related to um uh f uh families of wealth and uh their business interests. So Andrew, welcome. Uh I'm really excited to have this conversation with you, especially focusing on uh the use of of assessment uh in uh helping families uh and uh consulting, counseling, coaching into the fabric of of family relationships. So welcome on this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Thanks so much for having me, Marco. Great to be back with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Yeah, and and for those uh people that are listening in and who don't know you yet, maybe you can do a quick introduction before we dive in.

Why People Issues Come First

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Yeah, no problem. Uh so I I'm the founder of Plenitude Partners, which is a uh practice which works with families who own businesses or who have uh a portfolio of wealth of a significant size. And what I do with my colleagues is we help families navigate through the complexities of owning a business or having wealth, especially as they think about those times of transition where they might be handing off responsibilities from one generation to the next. And what we've found is that there's a lot of complexity and a lot of things that can go wrong, and in fact, often do go wrong, and if we can help families avoid that, we set them up for success for generations to come, and that's our goal.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Fantastic. And it sounds like that is uh quite significant work. Um how many people are doing this type of work in the world?

SPEAKER_00 2:32

I would have thought there was plenty of people doing it when I started. I thought surely this is so obvious that you would work on people issues before you work on money and structure issues, but it turns out not many. Uh, and uh I'm I I think people dabble in it a little bit, but to make it their main focus, as we do, uh there are very few. Um so I'm I I hope there'll be many more in years to come. There's plenty of work, there's great need, but just not a lot of people who start with the idea that a stronger family unit, a stronger relationship within the family unit is the the strength of the family, the way you secure the future of the family. If you have a lot of wealth and a lot of um uh successful businesses, but you don't have the family cohesion, uh actually you won't ultimately have that wealth retained in the family because it breaks up as a family breaks up. So it's just so obvious you start with the people first and then you move into the structure of money later.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

I think between the two of us that's the obvious thing, but people focus first on what you have as opposed to who you are. Yeah. Yeah. So when you think about, especially, I know you work with multi-generational uh families, uh ultra-high-net worth families. So what makes the human system or the fabric of relationships particularly complex?

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Well, two things come to mind. One is that many of these uh families we work with have been um they're in a position they are in financially because they've had a very strong uh mother-father, often father figure, uh maybe even brothers uh uh as well, who have really driven hard on building an extraordinary business. Um and what they have built is amazing. But in the on along the way, they've probably neglected uh relationships for the family. They perhaps haven't spent time at home investing in family relationships. They haven't perhaps been the father or mother they wanted to be or needed to be. And so the kids have come out the other end with the often great admiration for their parents, but not a deep relationship with them. And uh so one of the challenges is you just have these families that are not very tight uh in terms of their relational intimacy and their ability to communicate hard things, and and uh and if you've got a very successful father, for example, and using father can often be mother, uh often the kids feel a bit fearful to share about their weaknesses or challenges or things that they find hard because their father's been so successful and often isn't around as much anyway. That's one challenge. The check that the second challenge is that in creating this significant resource, um if you do it in one, if you're one person doing it, uh you can make all the decisions, you can make all call all the shots. But as soon as you pass it on to the next generation, you've got multiple voices and they need to work as a team and they need to work to make decisions, often with very different ideas and different perspectives. Um, and if you haven't built their relational cohesion, if you haven't got an environment where they can trust each other and have hard conversations, well, how are they going to make those decisions? So you have this resource they have to um share collectively and manage collectively, but they have no experience of managing or doing anything collectively, and suddenly now they've got this massive resource. So there's two particular challenges that we see, and there's many more, of course.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Hmm. So it sounds like when you get those generations to finally talk to each other, there's already a bit of dysfunction, or there are subjects that actually they don't know how to discuss yet, or they never have discussed. But it also sounds like that could lead to interesting emotional dynamics in the room. Uh what have you seen?

Founder Dynamics And Family Tension

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Yeah, I mean let's be clear, every family, because it's a relational system, has its own challenges. Mine family, your family, every family does. So what we're talking about is what is normal human experience. But in the context of this, we see it amplified significantly. And in and some of those relational dynamics, if I come back to that stereotype, and it is a stereotype, because not every family we work with has a strong alpha male leader, but but let's take that as a profile, which is fairly common. Um, you know, that person, uh before we get into the disc profiling uh conversation, but is often a high D. And uh they are in what the way they run their the way they run run their business and lead in their business is the style of leadership they bring to the home. And and uh one is a more transactional environment, the business, the other is a relational environment. The ways in which you bring out the best to people, uh uh, you know, the rules in one don't apply to the in the same way in any other. And so having people think about how do you bring out the best in your family and cultivate their growth and help them all rise up, uh, that's a different uh skill set and even a different mindset you need in a family context. And so we spend a lot of our time helping founders often say how do you actually adopt a different leadership approach in the home than you have at work, and because you've never done it, it's a big stretch, and so we help them stretch.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Right, right. And I'm sure that as you do that, then um that also has an impact on the rest of the family, but and also that you know, if if if if let's say the uh the patron of the family wants to go that direction, then it could pull the rest of the family with it uh as well, I assume.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Well, yeah, let me give an example uh of where we've uh where we've uh had some great success. And uh we we see a lot of progress with families we work with, but you're working with a father um where he or uh or founder or he or she has been the dominant uh voice and power and force in the business and also in the family, uh helping them see that actually continuing to run the family that way up until the point of their death won't actually create uh strength in the next generation that'll allow it to succeed in future. And so if they are the dominant voice who command the command and control structure leader in the home, it's actually going to fail on the next watch. It's unlikely to make it beyond uh uh beyond that next uh generation. So, how do you actually create space for the voices of your children to be heard? How do you create space for them to feel like actually I have an opinion that matters? So my father actually cares about what I think and he actually has confidence in me in some way, shape, or form. Um, how do you actually uh step in and appreciate some of the implications of your decisions or the family circumstances in the lives of your children and have empathy and show them empathy? Um, how do you do that? Because if you can't do that, again, it's unlikely to be able to thrive in the future.

Choosing DiSC And Agile EQ

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Yeah, yeah. Now, in the world of assessment tools, uh there are so many you could choose from. Um the last time I looked at it, it was like 600 different psychometric assessment tools in the world, and AI is actually churning up more because it's easier to build them out. But uh you've landed on uh Wiley Talent Solutions uh everything disk, agile EQ, combining the disk profile with uh emotional intelligence. So um how did you land on using that tool and why why have you uh been using it quite uh successfully as you know one of hundreds of options?

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Well, of course, knowing you and knowing knowledge works and what you do, that was a helpful start because I remember speaking to you at the time, I was launching this work and saying I need a way to help people become more um emotionally aware and uh be uh become more emotionally agile, not knowing about uh the agile uh disk uh tool. And of course, you were able to say, well, this is relatively new from Wiley. It's been, I think, around that that time for a couple of years, but it seems to be uh it seems it could be what you need, and so I I I tried it, and sure enough, it helped me actually begin different conversations with the family, and it took it out of the workplace, which is where most of this stuff sits, into a family context, and I needed something that could bridge into the family. And although the language is still very work-based, it's easier to bridge it into the family context. And so I found that as I talked to more families, people could identify themselves in one or two of the mindsets more readily, and it created uh a rich conversation around, you know, are any of these perspectives more important than the other in the family? And the answer is of course they're not. Um, but what we need is all of them to be able to come together and uh and work effectively, and for those who might be more naturally uh dominant to actually learn how to be perhaps more receptive for those who are receptive to learn how to have a voice and speak up, for those who only think about what's right and uh through an analytical lens, they need to actually have some empathy to step into those who are feeling and uh things in their gut a bit more and perhaps also have some valid contributions to make and helping them create a new system of operating that is not like what they've operated with in the business, but actually a new system of operating which is based on everybody uh bridging and being agile to help bring out the best in others. Why for the for the good of the family, for the for everybody to flourish, and for your ability to manage the assets that you have uh the responsibility for.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Yeah, excellent. Yeah, and and you know I'm biased when it comes to using the tool. Uh, and one of the reasons why I like it so much is is because it it starts with my behavioral style, and from there it looks at how you show up uh from an emotional intelligence point of view. And uh having those um those eight Agile EQ mindsets, I think is super helpful. Uh also because um, you know, when people think about emotional intelligence, very often the first thing that comes to mind is empathy, which which is an important part of emotional intelligence. But there are uh, you know, and the Angela EQ report lays it out very nicely, eight different mindsets. So, for instance, the opposite of empathizing is being resolute, which is also a form of emotional intelligence, but not often talked about. Or on the one hand, being receptive, but then on the opposite side of the circle, so to speak, is you know, being self-assured and just standing your ground and and and uh not budging. That can also be a form of emotional intelligence. Uh so combining those two worlds, my behavioral style and then different ways emotional intelligence can show up. I think uh that's one of the reasons why I love it. Um how are families responding when when you bring that into a multi-generational family discussion?

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Well, thanks for the explanational tool, because it you're right, those things uh are are really helpful for people who have a more rounded sense of emotional intelligence. And for those uh founders in the room who think emotions as weak, um uh as they often do, it's actually uh helping them. See, no, no, you need the full range of these responses in order to work well as a family and also to work well individually. Some of those responses, some of those mindsets you referred to will come more naturally to you or require less energy for you. But uh the idea is that when you're uh dealing with other family members, you use the mindset to connect best with them to help them grow and and and do what is best for the whole family as well. So working with the individuals and and the family. I had one family describe it, one person in the family describe it. Oh, I get this. So like having a a golf uh your golf clubs in your in your your your uh your bat your bag, uh you choose the right club for the right shot. And that's it, that's a great example. That's a great card. And so he had only ever used the dominant uh the self-assured club because he thought and and his self-assuredness was actually a bit of a a charade because he he he would deflect with humour and other things, but would be but you know, he's a he's a big guy and just sort of uses his size as a dominant force, but it was hiding a lot of insecurity for him and um and and fear, and so we were able to talk a bit about that and why he feels he needs to be that role, and he felt like he needed to be that because that's what his father was like. Um and but now he's one of several siblings and he has to play a different role, leading the family to what his father did. So I said, No, well that's how would you practice receptivity? Um, okay, well, I could probably you know, instead of filling the room with my voice, I could take time to draw from my siblings what their thinking is on certain things. And I said, you know, hold judgment, don't feel like you need to correct when you hear something that you don't think is right. Hold hold space for them to speak and let the the voices of the room come to a better agreement on something that you're talking about, rather than you having to make that decision in a way your father may have done before. So helping them see a different way of operating and still getting to good outcomes, but more patiently, but outcomes where everybody comes on board. What it does do is for people who have been again because we're thinking of it in the family domain, not the business domain, most of these families feel like it's those in the money domain, the business domain, they are the really important people in the room. Um if you've got a job in the family business as a son or a daughter, or you're running the money or whatever, you know, that's that's where the real action is. And for many, they feel like, well, I'm not in that room, then I'm not in any room. And what we want to say is, no, actually, the family room is a pre-eminent room now. The money room is a smaller room. Who runs the money, who runs the business, that's important, but it's not the whole family anymore in the way it was, say, in the first generation. Now in the family room, everybody, everybody has a role to play. Everybody has a role because actually we all are responsible for building relationships with each other. And so it gives people a sense of empowerment. And so then I can say, well, if your natural tendency is to sit in a more composed and receptive position, uh what what's it gonna mean when you're in that room and people are saying we're thinking about doing X or Y and you don't speak up? Well, I can tell you that for those who are more self-assured or resolute, they're gonna hear your silence as either agreement, well, that's good, everybody's agreed, and of course you feel in resentful because you haven't been heard, or they're gonna read it as as uh as disengagement, you don't care. Um and and that will obviously lead them to feel uh uh uh resentful because you don't care as much as they do. And so your your silence is not a gift to the family, it's actually something that contributes to um tensions in relationships. And so what we want to help people see is what they are comfortably, what they've spent years as a family perfection, you know, we all spend years in our families perfecting our dysfunctions, you know, and we do work around with each other. So these you know, these people have been with each other for for decades, and they will be with each other for decades, unlike a workplace where that's less likely to be the case. So we're gonna say, hey, let's rewire here, let's put on new glasses, see each other in a new way, and start relating to each other in different ways. And so if you're normally uh a more receptive type posture in a family, or you only do the sort of gut-feel empathizing type responses, maybe you need to do and hear from your brother or sister who has thinking through the logical and rational piece a little bit more. Maybe you need to tune into that a little bit more and have um have have that inform some of your thinking. So it's getting them to actually put on different hats, recognizing that those relationships they've built over many years in the family are pretty hard-wired, and we're trying to kind of rewire those or help them big up be more agile in their wiring.

Rewiring Patterns With A Shared Language

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Yeah, it sounds uh well, just based on what you said, you know, employees come and go or can even be fired. That's incredibly hard to do in a family. So you have to make it work. Um as you're talking, I'm I'm just thinking, you know, trying to visualize the conversations that you're having or trying to get a sense for it. But when you when you think about where they are before you start the process, and then where they are at the end, what starts to shift? What do you hear from them? What are they saying, or when they think out loud, what are they starting to say when that shift starts to happen?

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Yeah, so I mean our process runs over uh you know a long period of time. One of the this is a key tool uses not the only tool, but what we what we do have is a number of tools that help inform the changes and help bring about the changes. But one of the things I think this tool does helpfully is give people uh start some thinking about understanding more so than judgment. So instead of starting with a response and a reaction to their family member and a reason why, well, you've always said that you know, you you've always been like that, brother or sister. Uh, I'd expect nothing different from you, you know. The immediate um responses that have been conditioned over many years, what we're getting to do is start saying, How about our pause? I think again about my family member, and I look at look at uh at them through different different lens, a different mindset, and try and understand their perspective. So when we start seeing people take time to understand and appreciate, um, then it actually helps uh it and and for the sake of not posturing to get their way, but to bring about the best way for the whole family, uh, not just their own way for their own sake. And I think when we start seeing that sort of shared idea of, oh, okay, I see where you're coming from, I can give you now the benefit of the doubt. I know that you're not intending to be shutting me down, it's just you've done that over many years, and that's how we've operated as brother and sister together all issues. But I can see you making an effort to try and listen. And I remember one guy saying, oh, one one one sister saying to me, you know what, my brother, he's calling me periodically now for no reason at all, just to say hello. And he said, I can see he's making an effort. He just wants to check in because I'd encourage him to do that with with his uh siblings. It's lovely to see. Um, I was with a family uh a couple of weeks ago, and and these um two siblings who have worked together for many years, they um they had sort of become conditioned around uh, you know, their their their unhelpful condition response was this one brother, uh idea generator uh floats things, you know, more uh more in the eye category, the influencer category. Um with a brother who sits, you know, in deep in sea in the sort of conscientious or diagonal opposites. Yeah, yeah. And they'd never really appreciated this dynamic and how it plays out, but for them it meant that the the brother who was analyzing, and the uh he was younger than the sibling, uh he felt like um the other sibling was dismissing him because he would shut him down in meetings. Uh and so uh when we unpacked it, what became clear is that uh because the need for the analysis was so tiring and continued, it seemed forever. The sibling who wanted to be uh in the idea generation of let's go and let's you know much more active oriented, just felt like it was it was getting pulled down all the time. And so what it did is just shut down the sibling and said, Well, I'll just shut you down. And what the the sibling shut down felt like irrelevant, devalued, uh rejected, really. Um and then what they've agreed is oh, actually, I need to make sure that we get to hear your perspective and that critical framework, which is so valuable, adds so much, but you also need to know when when you need to let that go because we've actually come to a place of agreement and then let let the ideas fly. Yeah, and so it's just a helpful way to get them appreciating. Each other again, so I got them saying, What do you appreciate about you know your siblings um mindset and responses here? I really appreciate that you know they could talk through that. Um what frustrates you? We'll talk about that. And now how can we actually bridge to bring out the best in each other for the sake of in this case the business they're running?

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Yeah, yeah, and especially when they are opposites uh on the disk and they start to see those those opposite behaviors, for instance, the example you gave, being more outgoing and dynamic versus being more objective and composed, those are uh diagonal opposites on on the Angeli Q framework. You could see that as as a nuisance or as a frustration, but to start seeing that as an asset that we we actually have so much to to assist each other with and to compliment complement each other with. And yeah, to the example you took just gave is a beautiful example of how that can be activated in a in a family setting.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

So moving from an irritant, you use the word irritant. I actually used it with this with this uh uh team uh group last week, uh a couple a little while back. Uh yeah, it's it yeah from seeing each other other as an irritant to an asset to a gift to uh is a is a perspective shift, but because they've spent years and years working this way, it had become feeling like it's an irritant. Everything is everything slows me down. And uh that's so yeah, um these are these are great insights. When you see people get it's almost like, uh-huh I haven't realized that. I I was speaking to another father uh um years ago whose kids um were uh were were exploring whether they'd be in the business and uh some some were in the business, and and the father uh was hard uh you know strong strongly um uh uh similar profile to the other brother I just mentioned, but very analytical um and would come with a very analytical mindset uh to the kids' ideas. And the kids' ideas were always hosed down with reality that they felt like was just so demotivating. And I said, Well, do you want your kids to think of ideas and do you want them to be coming up with different ways of taking the business forward and uh and this is in a business context? I said I said uh he said, Yeah, I do. And I said, Well, you know, how how how's that working when you do that now? And and he could see actually his critical approach was only uh uh demoralizing and discouraging people and his family, especially, and not bringing out what he wanted in them, which was this entrepreneurial drive and embracing of their responsibilities. And when and because a lot of the conversations happen around the dinner table, um, it actually made that even more extreme because most of these families, the only conversations they have are actually around the business. And so part of the other thing we get them to do is have non-business oriented conversations. We teach them how to have those, how to value each other as people, how to value the family in its holistic sense and the wealth of the family, which is far more than its wealth, it's its values and its its um relationships and its uh individual achievements of people in the family, it's the way the family gives generously to others. That's all part of the family's wealth that we want them to celebrate more often.

Ripple Effects In Giving And Governance

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Yeah, yeah. And I can imagine if that happens at the dinner table, then eventually you get discouraged and it even might think that it's safer for me to not share my ideas because if I get shut down all the time, it's not a safe conversation to have. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Now, over time, of course, uh working within the family fabric, uh, that's you know not a goal in and of itself. Um what you're it you're looking for that ripple effect in the family ecosystem. How does this type of work have that ripple effect? What do you see?

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Well, I guess uh um at one simple level, it's if we've got healthy families with significant resources, either active businesses they're running or significant investments they're running, uh, healthy families tend to think beyond themselves and they tend to think generously towards others, and they tend to think about positive impact in the world because they've discovered that actually life is so much more than just accumulation of resources, it's about uh creating uh wealth and well-being for others as well. And so what we do see is familiar to start thinking more intentionally about how do we bring our generosity and empathy mindsets into our business, um into uh uh uh into the way we treat our staff and how we think about those who might step in after the founding generation steps out, so that that becomes part of their DNA, the way we treat each other, not just what we do and what we make in terms of profit matters. The other thing I think is with we we do see, and maybe it's self-selecting because of course with people coming to us who value relationships in some way, shape, or form, yeah, we do see a greater intentionality around how they give their resources uh in terms of philanthropy. And so um, you know, it's gratifying as a family I'm working with. And uh they've formed their philanthropy committee. Um, well, that used to all be done by the old man who's since uh passed on, but now they've said actually, given the level of our wealth, we should be doing more than we are, and we'll if given it used to be dad's job, it needs to be our job, let's be a bit more attentional about that. They've started to come together around the act of giving and generosity. Um so you do see this um play out in terms of the the assets they're they're they're uh managing. But in terms of just the general family, there's a family I I started working with, one of my first families where I used Agile uh EQ. Um and uh that was about 2019, I think. Uh-huh. They they went through this process, and uh it was a really transformative process for them, and it helped lay the groundwork for some very difficult conversations, some healing conversations that were necessary. There was a lot of hurt, as there often is, that needed to be addressed, and we had the relational strength to have the conversations they needed. Right. But um, but actually, my goal was not just to get them over the pain, but to actually build strength into the family so that they could continue doing and the um continue with the practices that would keep them strong. And so they, to their credit, they they really took this on board. So, what they what they created was uh an operating system for their family through with my guidance that continues today, and and just recently they came back and said that we've got some new members who are joining the family. We want you to go through and we want you to take them through what you did with us, you know, those years ago, because that actually helped graft us together. And now we want to have these new members in. Can you go through that process with them? So that they're doing agile disk and what have you. So what we'll have is they will have the same language to connect with their family members around. We'll be able to have the conversations uh that we had six years ago in with these new members, but it'll all feel like it's all part of the same thing. So strong family systems is really a great outcome of this work.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Wonderful. That sounds like uh it's really uh uh uh encouraging when you see that type of transformation happen. Uh you started by saying at the beginning there are not many people doing this in in in your uh your industry, if I could call it an industry. Uh a lot of people are focusing on what they have rather than who they are. Um what would you say to other people who are in the wealth space? Um what what would you encourage them to do? Uh reach out to Planet Two Partners, that's the cliche most obvious one. But yeah, what would you say to them?

Advice For Advisors And Closing

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Well, I think my colleagues and I, we have a obviously we love doing the work, but there's far more than we can ever do. We want people who are engaged with these families regularly to recognize that the healthier they are relationally, the better they'll be at managing their resources and uh coming up with uh decisions that that are helpful to those who manage their money. So we would say have the uh relational conversations before you have the money conversations, even if it means just checking in, how's it going? What's what's on your mind, what's been hard for you? It what we do is we we want to actually say, well, first of all, we're dealing with people. We're not dealing with money first, we're dealing with people first. And those people live in relationships that are often hard. We know that the the private banks who we deal a lot with, they often have these conversations coming up, but they don't quite know what to do with them because they're anxious to get to the money conversation, because that's where they'll make their money. But they care about their clients and they care about the pain they're going through. So we just want to say start relationally and recognize that if you really want to make great progress with a family and you want them to be a long-term client for you, not just a client for the generation who has appointed you, because when the when the next generation step in, they're quite likely to sack you and go to a new advisor unless you've actually worked hard to build relationships with them. If you really want that, then actually start doing some of the relational work. You don't have to do it as deeply as we do, not at all, but you do need to recognize that actually if they don't have some cohesion, it's not going to be able to, it's it's very hard for you to do your job. Um so there's a richness in that. So um we we actually run advisor training to help um uh you know those in banks and other places, um trusted trusted attorneys and others, uh, to actually know how to have some of these more sensitive conversations to a level where they're comfortable with them, which was in your risk risk profile because we recognize some of what we do is very risky when it comes to uh you know uh having difficult conversations. If you're looking after the families' money, you can't be doing that and you shouldn't be, because that's your best job is looking after their money well. But we can teach people how to have conversations which actually show more empathy for their situation and help them say, okay, I can see why it's half, and I can see why that's just to give more helpful responses, and if it's appropriate, then to you know maybe uh encourage them to speak to us or somebody else in the space. So um yeah, we we certainly do a lot of that uh work with with advisors.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Wonderful. Well, uh just listening to you once again, it's it it's strategically important work, but also meaningful work that uh that is often overlooked. So uh thank you for stepping into that space. And as you said, it's sometimes hard work, but it's uh it's super important in our world because those families right around the globe have a sign potential for significant impact. And just hearing you say that they become more intentional uh in terms of generosity, in terms of philanthropy, in terms of strategic impact in the world, um that has a huge ripple effect. So thank you for uh for being involved in that work. And uh we'll put note in our notes section, we'll uh we'll make sure that uh people know how to reach Planetary Partners and yourself if uh if they want to talk further with you. So thank you for having this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Not at all. Thank you for providing great tools because uh you provide tools that we need for our job, and without those tools we wouldn't be able to do it as well. And I know that you know the tool we use with Agile EQ is just one of the many that you provide, and uh we've obviously used others with you as well. And I think the other part of this that I didn't mention, which is helpful, is that often we're working with a family while you're working in the business system. And when that's happened, it's been really wonderful because we can prime the family to be better stewards and you can help them in their transition often uh out of uh operational leadership into uh governance leadership. And uh when we do that piece together, it's it's very powerful. So I'm excited to be able to do more of that with you as well.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

Absolutely. Yeah, that's been a lot of fun to uh co uh to cross-refer and to partner uh in that way. It's really beautiful. So thank you again, Andrew. Thanks for having this conversation. And uh if people want to reach out to either one of us, find the details in the notes section. Great, thank you. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of the Cultural Agility Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, share it with someone. The best way to help us out is by leaving a review on your favorite podcast app or channel, or forward and recommend this podcast to people around you. If any of the topics we discussed today intrigue you, you'll find links to articles discussing them in greater depth in the podcast notes. If you would like to learn more about getting certified in intercultural intelligence and how you can become more interculturally agile, you can find more information and hundreds of articles at Knowledgeworks.com. A special thanks to Jason Carter for composing the music on this podcast and to the whole KnowledgeWorks team for making this podcast a success. Thank you, Shelley Reinhardt, Rajita Raj, Anita Rodriguez, Karen Condone, and special thanks to Matthew Blankenberg for audio production, Rosalind Raj for scheduling, and Caleb Strang for helping produce this podcast.