Marco Blankenburgh: 0:00

But ultimately, we have to decide who we want to be. And what I love about this approach is that once you understand your own behavior, your colleagues behavior, other people you work with across the network of your organization, you can use that same language to now say, who do we want to be? So, so from personal culture, you don't go to team or organizational culture and it's very organic. It's the same, the same grid. It's the same language that you start using to then craft culture as a leader. And that's so incredibly important in today's world. Welcome to the cultural agility podcast, where we explore the stories of some of the most advanced intercultural practitioners from around the world, to help you become culturally agile, and succeed in today's culturally complex world. I'm your host, Marco Blankenburg, international director of knowledge works, where every day we help individuals and companies achieve relational success in that same complex world.

Shelley Reinhart: 1:14

Hello, everyone, welcome to our podcast today, we have a great topic. I'm so excited for you to hear what Marco has to say today about global leadership and what it takes in today's world. I am your host, Shelley Reinhardt, and I am the global network liaison for knowledge works. I connect practitioners, culturally agile practitioners all over the world. And I'm excited to have you here, Marcos take on leadership today. I think we'll all learn a lot. He's ready to share. He's has lots of experience in this topic. He's done it all of his life. So Marco. Hello.

Marco Blankenburgh: 1:55

Thank you, Shelly. It's so good to be back on this podcast again. And I love this topic, because it's so incredibly important in the world of today.

Shelley Reinhart: 2:05

It is it is there's so much going on in the world. And I'm excited to hear you talk about global leadership. But first, can I just ask you a quick question? How would you define global leadership? A culturally agile leader, leader? What is it?

Marco Blankenburgh: 2:20

Well, that is already incredibly difficult question. So first of all, you mentioned both global leadership and culturally agile leadership. And those are indeed two different things. Yes, you're right. So so somebody could say, oh, I'm a global leader, because I manage I manage multiple countries, I have staff from all over the world, we have clients from many different backgrounds and countries, we have a stakeholder network that is very global, therefore, I'm a global leader. And that's partially true. But it doesn't really make you a global leader. It's a little bit the same. I've seen that with international schools, for instance, and you could relate to that Celie. You know, international schools, where kids from 50 nationalities go to school, and teachers and staff from 25 Five nationalities work, and educate and then they say, we are an international school, or an intercultural school. And just just by putting a whole bunch of nationalities together in in one organization doesn't magically turn on this culturally agile thing. And the same day, same is true for global leaders. So some global leaders are culturally agile, and others are not. And that's one of the biggest distinctions on top of that, when you start looking at how humanity has tried to make sense of what it takes to be a global or what we then call a culturally agile leader. We haven't done a lot of research on this topic. So the closest I can come is to research that has been going on for more than 20 years as the glow project. And the globe project has indeed been done across more than 60 countries. And they asked the question, well, what does a good leader do? What how do they behave? What does a bad leader do and how do they behave? And that is probably one of the few projects that tried to wrap their head around culturally agile, global leadership. What do we all agree on as humanity? And the interesting thing is after 20 years of digging into this question, they've come up with with four endorsed leadership behaviors that the world seems to say yeah, that's what a good leader does. So being charismatic and value based in your leadership being team oriented, being participative in the way you lead, being humane oriented, for for the most So if the world says, yeah, those, that's what a good leader does. And there are two others where they disagree sort of where they say, if you're self protective in some cultures, that's seen as good leadership in some cultures as bad leadership, if you're autonomous, in some cultures, it's seen as bad leadership in other cultures it's uploaded. But that's as far as we got as humanity to figure this out. And then on top of that, you also have more than 160, documented global leadership competencies. Now there's a whole bunch of frameworks out there, one of our practitioners, Microsoft has done extensive Leadership Research for his PhD, he has found over 160 documented or advocated global leadership competencies. So on the one hand, very little research done, on the other hand, a whole bunch of people who have opinions about what a global global leader should be doing and what competencies and skills they should have.

Shelley Reinhart: 6:03

Wow, yes, the four that you said charismatic value based, you mean? The Yeah, they all sit, there are some wonderful and I could see how they would translate into different cultures. But when you're talking about intercultural leadership, how does that complexity like adding in the complexity of all the cultures present? How does that affect leadership in general? You're adding the complexity of culture, what does that do to a leader? Can you just sort of walk us through that, as compared to someone who doesn't have that?

Marco Blankenburgh: 6:38

Right? Right? What typically happens is when I meet leaders who step into the global space, what often seems to be the case is that they think that they can keep doing what they've always done. Because they typically know they get selected because they're really good in in what they do. And then they get offered more international or more global roles. And then they step into that environment. And then they discover that everything is all of a sudden, a whole lot more complicated. You know, I was, I was speaking to a leader this week about his role, which crosses three continents, and just talking through some examples of the complexity of managing staff from all over the world, who might not even live in the countries that they are responsible for, especially after COVID. So you might be this particular leader, I'm thinking of he, he has more than 50 countries under his jurisdiction. And then on top of that, some of his staff don't even live in those 50 countries, they live somewhere else, and they serve the organization from the outside in. And then, and then you have all kinds of interesting stuff happening, then all of a sudden, there is an election that throws everything upside down in one country. And then there is strikes in another country, and then there is volatile situation that might lead to life threatening situations for your staff. And then an industry goes upside down. And, and, and and. And when you listen to leaders like that, you realize they have a really complex bunch of things that they need to juggle. And it's much more complicated than before, for instance, being a leader in one country, where a lot of the staff might actually live in that country, and serve the countries and the clients are in that same country. Yeah.

Shelley Reinhart: 8:44

Wow. That's, yeah, that's levels of complexity. Upon levels of complexity. You

Marco Blankenburgh: 8:49

think when you think about how leaders like that are different? I think I would summarize it as follows. I think they first of all, they have real intercultural street smarts, they are not just the globe, the global leader, because they happen to have a jurisdiction that, you know, goes across geographies, or even continents. But for me, I always look for pretty much one thing. And that is, is can this leader create culture, in that complicated web of off peak contributors and recipients of their services or products and the politics and the economics and social demographic issues that they might be dealing with? Can they create culture and when I think about creating culture, that is in a one on one meeting that isn't meeting a government official, that is meeting people in their sphere of society. So if they're in mining, you know, in the mining alliances and collaboration platforms everywhere They go, can they connect with people in a culturally agile way? And can they create culture? And of course, the most important place for them to do that is on their own team inside their organization, and

Shelley Reinhart: 10:13

can execute question about that. Does someone have to be well traveled? Just you said, you know, they've got a streetsmart sense about them. What? How do you develop that? Just? How do you, you know, what if I've never traveled to the place where people are working? How do I know that? Can you just expand on that a little?

Marco Blankenburgh: 10:33

That's a very interesting question. When you look at the research, in terms of how likely is somebody going to succeed? Even if they haven't traveled before? How likely is they are they're going to succeed in a new context? That's called interculturally. Complex? Yeah. And actually, you really don't know. So there's a number of tools out there, I call them expandability tools, to tools that are trying to predict how likely you're going to succeed. And 30 years into working internationally, I've come to the conclusion that it's incredibly difficult to predict. So even the most well traveled people, they might have already had multiple placements in different countries, they might still get into a very challenging situation with, for instance, deep culture shock on their next move. And then for instance, right now, I'm working with a European leader who is busy relocating him and his family to another part of the world. And I met him for the first time and the one thing I always look for, is, are you a cultural learner? Are you are you in inquisitive? As opposed to a cultural critic, when there is one way of doing things. So instead of being inquisitive, somebody like that would be definitive, this is how things are supposed to get done. And here is, I'm relocating. And I'm going to lead the team in this in this way, or I'm going to lead the business in this in this way. So either being inquisitive versus definitive, being humble is typically also part of being a cultural learner. So if I meet a leader like that, and they, they are showing the the signs of a cultural learner, there is that sense of humility, that desire to understand and learn and ask lots of questions and not push their weight around too soon, into the new assignment, for instance, that person is likely going to succeed. And despite the fact that they've never, you know, this particular gentleman, he's never had a placement outside of his home country, for instance. Wow.

Shelley Reinhart: 12:51

But you can sense that about him. And you sense he's, he's curious. He's not closed. Oh, that's, that's really beautiful. And I am, thank you for clarifying that. Because I think that's such a key piece. So it doesn't mean you have to, you have to have traveled all over the world and exposed yourself to, you know, so many cultures, it's, it's been a cultural learner, and having the heart and the attitude and the posture of that, that can make you initially successful, or at least opened the door to success as a global leader. Is that right? That's what you started salutely.

Marco Blankenburgh: 13:25

Yeah. And I like the way you say that it opened the door to success. Because, yes, I might not have if I was in that position, I might not have the knowledge. I might have to study hard. But the local context, which is still really important, the history, the history of the context, the way things are done. But if I have the heart of a cultural learner, if I'm if I'm humble, if I recognize, I don't know what I don't know, then that person is going to learn super fast. And they're going to they're going to know very soon how things are done, and how good they can align themselves. And how can they can be culturally agile in doing that,

Shelley Reinhart: 14:06

and build relationships, I'm sure at the same time, because they must be asking questions if they're, if they need to learn. Oh, that's fantastic.

Marco Blankenburgh: 14:16

Can I just ask add one more thing? Yes. As I'm learning more and more about this, I'm still learning. Talk about a cultural learner. 2030 years into living internationally and working with people who either are aspiring to do that starting it or who've done it for many years. I realized more and more this this one thing that really holds you back as a as a global leader who wants to be culturally agile, tell us what is it and if I sort of summarize it, there's a there's a way of thinking they call it whole systems thinking and in whole systems thinking you there are six different things you learn should do well, it when you engage with the context of the people in that context with the issues of that context. And maybe we can share a link as well with people to learn a little bit more about systems or whole systems thinking, but somebody who is a cultural learner who's culturally agile, everybody I meet who's like that. They're actually a systems thinker, although they might not know about systems thinking they are inherently operating that way. So, so the few things that are six main things that they always look for the whole picture. So they don't, they don't see just, you know, a sliver of it. They also are, yes, they might be linear in their thinking, but they always look back, they always say, Okay, we've talked about this now for a while. And, but I want to go back and want to see now that we understand the situation a bit better. Can we look at it from a different angle. So they're more circular, they are more thinking in in loops, almost, you know, they keep coming back to things and revisiting every time they gain a little bit more insight. They try and revisit things that they thought were true, or they thought they had figured out but they always want to check again. So it's not from A to B to C, and we're done. Also, they they see things in relationship, not in isolation. So the the relationship is both people, but also systems, you know, there's a relationship between systems and how those systems either are conflicting each other or how those systems are either helping people or holding people back. They also hate silos. It's very interesting. So culturally agile leaders, they don't like silos. So they always are looking for ways to create synergy. And emerge new things from the connection between people and systems and business units are always looking for that. The fifth one is that they know that everything is interconnected, and they they look for it, they just naturally say, oh, wait a minute, you guys should be talking to these other people over there. And they, that conversation might lead to something beautiful. And that leads to the last thing, they're always looking for synthesis. So if things can come together, it gets stronger, it gets better, it gets more valuable. And no matter where I go, I I was introduced to systems thinking, later on, I was already deep into the intercultural space. And when I saw those two together, I said, Absolutely every good, culturally agile leader, I mean, they operate that way. So

Shelley Reinhart: 17:46

that's so interesting. Wow. Yeah, I see that it's almost like you're, you're defining a cultural leader with all of those things, but adding culture. And also, if they're doing those things, they are creating culture, they're creating a third cultural space, in a sense,

Marco Blankenburgh: 18:05

absolutely. And they create space for different opinions, different ways of thinking, different way of approaching problems, etc. And it's yeah, it just makes sense. So if you're not familiar with whole system's thinking, look it up. Because it's a nice little way to say, Okay, I want to be a cultural learner, as a leader, I want to be culturally agile, then I have to also maybe shift the way I engage with myself with the people around me with the systems of the organization with the context. And whole systems thinking was just a nice induction. In Dutch we call them coathangers, you know, something that you can hang hang a big concept on. And it just makes sense.

Shelley Reinhart: 18:48

And so you can learn how to be a systems thinker, and you can learn how to be a cultural learner. Is that correct? It's not something you're just kind of naturally absorbed with?

Marco Blankenburgh: 18:59

Absolutely. And it's very often like as a cultural learner. For instance, learning to, to ask a lot of questions. We are currently publishing a book with the ultimate intercultural question book. And we've gathered over 1000 questions that you can ask to understand the context to know how you can engage with that context more effectively. And that part is incredibly scalable, scalable, as well. So learning to ask those questions, you actually fall in love with it, you start to discover, wow, this is amazing. I start to learn so much faster, I get so much more perspective and insight. And using that, that whole systems approach to always step back and always look for connections between both policies, procedures, systems, as well as people and learning to create beauty out of those connections both from from By synthesis point of view, as well as from an emergence point of view.

Shelley Reinhart: 20:05

I love that. I love that. And one of the questions I was going to ask you was, what are the what are some pitfalls and phallus leaders need to consider when they've been offered this global job when they're like moving into global leadership? And this is so you're saying one of the fallacies one of the pitfalls can be not asking questions not being a systems thinker not being a cultural learner? Would you say that?

Marco Blankenburgh: 20:34

Yeah, those those are typically some of the first ones that would die discuss when we do like global leadership coaching, or develop culturally agile leaders, be willing to put everything in the bin that you used to do at home? And just assume that you start with a blank sheet? And that you? That's challenging? Yeah, yeah. And some of the things you used to do back home will end up back on the sheet, right. But yeah, for the time being, be willing to just just learn, just observe and get to know your people get to know the market, get to know your clients, your suppliers, your stakeholders, and really be a cultural learner. So that's crucial. But there are a number of other ones that I can think of. So people still think that by moving into a new context, new geography, or by expanding your your responsibilities into new new geography, people still have this idea that all I need to do is just learn a few tips and tricks, do's and don'ts. And I'll be fine. And that's where people make typically big mistakes. That's where biases start to come in. And where biases have a negative impact, where where people just draw conclusions too quickly. And they don't listen anymore. They don't ask any more questions. So what we find, and this is one thing that that I'm passionate about is that he has a country or a certain geography might have some general things that might be true about that place. So for instance, you know, a certain part of the world relationships might be really important, other parts of the world, process and system and documents might be really important. There might be those general things that are true. But with a globalized workforce, as we experienced today, I think it's so important to not dwell too much or, or depend too much on those broad generalizations. And I find that good culturally agile leaders, they actually put those generalizations more to the background. So they, they start to treat the people that they work with more as unique cultural human beings. Yes, and that is a dramatic shift for some, but it's just, you know, not depending on the outside rapper too much. And I've seen, especially in the world that we live in today with so many hundreds of millions of cross cross cultural kids that have entered into the workforce now, with more than 300 million people not living in the country of their passport, especially if you're in a global business and geo academic institution. A lot of the people that work there are more global citizens typically. So don't, don't define the people you work with, by the outside rapper of nationality, ethnicity, and race and learn to discover the the cultural person in front of you. So that shift is really, really helpful, because you connect at a deeper level with each other, but you also learn what is this colleague of mine bringing into our team? What is their cultural preference? And how does that impact the shaping of the team and how I need to lead that team as a leader? So yeah, I think that's a really important point as well.

Shelley Reinhart: 24:22

And so if that's true, and I need to consider everyone on my team as a unique cultural human being, and I need to not rely on biases, and I need to not make assumptions, then I would need to set aside time to get to know each of my team members, not in the usual way, like in a meeting, but actually learn where they're from, where they've been, where they've traveled, what influences have been a part of their lives. Is that what you're saying? Like it needs to be built in to my role as as a global leader.

Marco Blankenburgh: 24:56

Yeah, spending time with people and it's fascinating. Working with leaders in multiple, at the moment, I'm working with leaders on four continents and, and just that how much people appreciate that time where we talk about how to create relational strengths on a team. And I've often seen teams where the leader facilitates a time where they're just just exploring each other, just getting to know each other's backstory, and learning more about, you know, what, what, what do you bring into this team as a human being. And it's always fascinating how much people appreciate that, it seems there's even more appreciation for it now, than before COVID. People want that relational Connect. But as a leader, it really helps you to say, I get to know the whole human being. And that is what I use to now craft the culture of the team. And that that makes me think about another fallacy is that, as a culturally agile leader, you can't just say, I'm the boss, we're going to do it my way from now on. And that might work short term, but it never is sustainable. Because you got you, you either are going to have you know, silent compliance or assimilation, we talk about assimilation, or people just do things, because you want them done in a certain way. And it doesn't get the best out of your people. So, so creating, getting to know your people learning who they are as cultural human beings, using that to then craft the culture of your organization of your team, together with the key players. I think that that is something that if leaders do that, well, the team will talk about that a little bit later, but the team just comes alive, and it has a whole bunch of really powerful side effects that that are worth considering. The other thing, the other thing I'm thinking about is, if you don't study the deeper fabric of society, if you don't become a student of history, you're actually making a big mistake. And every place had is what it is today, because of the way society is organized, and who the key movers and shakers are, and the history that that caused them to be where they are today. So I always say, please be a student of those things get to know understand, it will help you make better business decisions. It will assist you to know who to connect with and who not. And it will also allow you to know how to develop your talent pool, for instance, in your clientele, and what it takes to create a good reputation in that context.

Shelley Reinhart: 27:57

So that applies, even if you're, if you're creating, I want to say cookie cutter like, this is our business, this is the way it's done. This is non negotiable. It's done this way all over the world, we're just replicating it in different parts of the world, even in a business like that. These are still crucial. Yes, ideas.

Marco Blankenburgh: 28:17

Absolutely. And you know, when you think about, you know, a cookie cutter, like a franchise, especially in food and beverage type of industry, then still you are there to, to serve the local context. And in that local context, there are key movers and shakers and voices that are important for the local context. So you still need to learn how things are done. And how to connect with that even though your business model might not change that much the way you position yourself in the market and the way you engage with the market. That is where cultural agility can be a make or break really.

Shelley Reinhart: 28:57

Yes, my see that that's good. That's good. Can you give us some examples of leaders that you've seen, who have not had good global leadership skills? Or we're not culturally agile on sort of the fallout? Do you have some examples? Yeah,

Marco Blankenburgh: 29:18

I mean, that that can be very big Fallout or small fallout. So this week, I was having a conversation and just talking about how to engage with a team that is super intercultural. And as we were discussing it, the leader realized that the way he had put the performance measures and indicators together, everything that he done was based on individual accountability, so holding each person accountable for their own performance. And he realized through the conversation we were having that most of his team members were actually from community accountability cultures, so cultures where, as a group, you're held accountable for your successes and failures. And he realized that not only had he not given them a performance framework that they could resonate with, on top of that he, as a result, had created a situation where colleagues were pitched against each other in their performance. And that had, he realized that that was having a very negative side effect. And we talked about that, you realize, while I'm actually pitching these colleagues, who actually many of them are even friends, and pitching them against each other, just because I misunderstood how performance measure management is done in this cultural context.

Shelley Reinhart: 30:50

So that was new to him, he had never led a team where individual accountability wasn't, you know, wasn't the primary way to,

Marco Blankenburgh: 30:59

yeah, he just brought it he just brought well how he used to do it. And he was incredibly successful at doing that. He brought it in. And then only he realized later on how that was, was not effective on that team.

Shelley Reinhart: 31:16

So he was paying attention, and he was listening. And he was, he was seeing that this isn't effective. Yeah, he noticed.

Marco Blankenburgh: 31:23

Yeah, yeah. Wow. Thinking of another example, which is more at the global level, where some key leaders have have taken the organization on a journey. But those leaders have all come from a certain cultural background. And I won't mention a part of the world, but it's a specific part of the world. And they probably with good intentions, set a course for the culture of the organization. The dilemma is, they are leading an organization that has people in over 100 countries. And, and they set the culture, it was a very much open communication, upward feedback, where people had to find their own way to either suggest, complain or endorse certain behaviors, and where people had to plot their own path, in terms of their career advancements, and had to be quite competitive in terms of how they positioned themselves and how they made sure that their voices would be heard by everybody else, so that they would be noticed, and given opportunities for training and for career advancement, etc. So there were a whole bunch of things that they set in motion, but they were in our three colors, a worldview framework, very much innocence, guilt oriented, very much individual accountability oriented. And it took them literally four years to finally start listening to the organization. And to realize, wait a minute, this is not how the rest of the world functions. And they had to go back to the drawing board and say, we realize that only certain people actually want to work for us. Because we are culturally not inclusive enough. We, we don't we don't create a culture of belonging, except for people who are willing to be compliant to the way things are done in the organization. But if but it's an uncomfortable compliance, and that was just, it's painful to discover those things. But once they did, they said, Okay, now we need to become culturally inclusive, we need to create a better third cultural space. That is that really creates room for different ways of doing things.

Shelley Reinhart: 33:53

So, so culture affects even the way we hold each other accountable.

Marco Blankenburgh: 33:58

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And, and how we build trust, even how we, how we built trust, how we think about career advancement, how we build relationships with our customers, all of that is directly influenced by culture.

Shelley Reinhart: 34:14

And to be culturally agile, you you have to look a global leader would look at all of those things and make sure that they're culturally appropriate.

Marco Blankenburgh: 34:23

Yeah. And that takes time. And of course, there are certain things that you just don't have the luxury to forever. Discuss these things. The opportunities you give to people to contribute and to be part of it. Can can really draw people in, create commitment, create a sense of belonging, being included in a culturally appropriate way is super important. And that, you know, makes me think of another example where how do you get a conversation going? That is culturally inclusive. Yeah, very often, you know, for instance, classic challenge that leaders have is opinion surveys. So or employee satisfaction surveys, how do you listen, listen to your staff, how do you listen to your organization, a lot of those mechanisms are actually designed in the West predominantly so so it's made see that it makes the assumption that that leader that a person wants to give their own opinion that they, they are not, they don't have a problem with with criticizing the organization, or potentially giving negative feedback about their leader. And what we see time and again, that leaders who are culturally agile did they start to notice that if you use a one size fits all to listen to your organization, then only certain people speak and other people don't speak at all. To give you an example, I was working with a leadership team for a Africa wide organization. And they were doing an employee survey. And they had just been introduced to our three colors, a worldview tool. And this is a big organization. So a few 1000 People had completed the survey, it was an employee satisfaction or feedback survey. And the head of HR said, so what do you think? Shall we close the survey? And I said, Well, would you mind if we just do a quick scan of the people that have completed the survey and see if there is a cultural bias in the people that completed it first? And what did we discover the people who completed the survey first, were predominantly what we call innocence, guilt oriented in their cultural orientation. So more right, wrong oriented, typically raised in a situation where speaking your mind sharing your voice, is encouraged as an individual. And looking through that initial list, we discovered that the other two worldview drivers, more focused on honor, more focused on hierarchy and position and power. They were actually very few in amongst the ones that had completed. So they realized, oops, we're using a mechanism that people don't feel comfortable with. And we were about to close the survey and then make strategic leadership decisions based on what we learned. Wow. And that would have taken the whole organization in the wrong direction.

Shelley Reinhart: 37:33

Wow, that is a great example. Yeah, leaving out the that that entire population of, of your of your company, you haven't heard from them? Wow, those are great examples. Marco, just any, any last one of just something that's that significant. And those are significant examples of big impact.

Marco Blankenburgh: 37:55

Yeah, I think, personally, what I love to do a, you know, what I really find rewarding is to work on a program, we call it our high performing intercultural team work. And having if I look at the leaders, I've had the privilege of working with that invite us to do a high performing intercultural teaming initiative. They are typically cultural learners, and they love really being crafters of culture, I would say, and working with those leaders, yes, it takes time. But when I look at the teams that we've worked with, some teams are already more than five years, six years on that journey. And how sustainable that is, and how strong those teams are, and how retention is, is strong. People want to work on those teams, the teams typically have a good reputation in the rest of the organization. I've, I've heard people say, Oh, I wish I could work for that team. Because they have the following, you know, cultural traits that really are appealing to me. And it's just so beautiful to see leaders who get it Yeah, say, you know, culture eats strategy for breakfast. And if I don't take culture serious, first of all, my people won't stay. And secondly, I might not be able to pursue strategy in the best way possible.

Shelley Reinhart: 39:28

Yes. Well, this is powerful. So what do we say to people who are listening right now that this possibly seems so overwhelming to them? Maybe they've looked back and they see they've made mistakes? Maybe culture hasn't even been part of the conversation. What can they what can they do? How can how would you say? What are some simple steps that you can take to become a culturally agile leader?

Marco Blankenburgh: 40:00

Yeah, I think there are, I always think about the whole processes as a whole bunch of hundreds of micro improvements. And the the idea of micro improvements comes from the world of sports, you know, an athlete who already runs, you know, a really, really good time on 100 meters, how do you incrementally improve that time. And it's a process of micro improvements. And I like to treat the idea of becoming a culturally agile leader, the same way. So one of the first things we typically start with is, being a better observer. See, seeing more, hearing more, gathering more information that allows you to understand yourself better understand the other person better the relationship that is trying to happen, understanding the context better the systems that is are being used in that context, and how they impact the way people function. So the ability to observe and we bucket that together, we call it perception, management, perceiving better, and I love using, you know, the example of being in the outdoors. I remember I was in, in North America for for a program that we were running. And we had, we had asked a ranger, to take the whole group into the forest. And that forest was totally unfamiliar to me. And the more he spoke, the more I realized, I really don't know how to see in this forest, I don't know how to hear, I don't know what to look for. I don't, I don't know what it's worth noticing. And through the eyes of this Ranger, I realized, this guy knows how to see he knows how to hear he knows what to look for, he knows who knows what's important, what might be marks of danger, or, or opportunities for food or etc. And with with developing cultural agility, it's very much the same. I use it as a metaphor. So how can I enhance my perception management, we have a number of tools that you can use to enhance that. And what what is part of that is understanding yourself as a human being now, we happen to have a number of tools that are really helpful. In the world of global leadership development, very often people start with doing competency assessments. So let's, let's measure how, how good you are in this space. So some competency frameworks use, you know, a grid, and there might be 12, nine, sometimes even 18 different competencies. We believe that's important. But where we typically start is, do you understand how you are wired as a cultural human being, and how does that influence how you behave as a cultural human being. So we've developed tools for that I already alluded to the three colors a worldview that gives you insights in, in your preference on some key cultural drivers. And then we've got another tool that is called the cultural mapping inventory, that gives you insights in in how your day to day thinking, speaking and acting as a cultural human being. And we have 12 different dimensions, they're both those tools are designed to give you a rich language and insight in how you are operating and wired as a cultural human being. And that is, that's a really important place to start. Because once you understand your own behavior, and you have a neutral language to talk about that you can start using that same approach with people around you.

Shelley Reinhart: 43:51

So you're saying I start with myself, I understand what are my cultural drivers? What are my cultural preferences? Once I understand those, then I can see better I can observe others better? Because I have the language to know what to look for.

Marco Blankenburgh: 44:07

Absolutely, yeah, yeah. And the beauty with the tools we have developed there, there's no value judgment in the tool. So the language is neutral. The preference points, we don't say, Oh, that's a bad preference point or a good reference point. It is what it is. And learning to that level of neutrality, also then creates a much more open conversation around culture. And that then allows me to say, Okay, you think differently, for instance, about how we make exceptions to the rules. So one of our dimensions talks about that. So how are decisions made? Is it exclusively based on the rules or is it more on the relationship side and let's see what we can do for each other. And let me talk to somebody and it's not about bending rules but accommodating the relationship as well as a PA Holding the roles at the same time. So you have that neutral language to talk about, typically issues that are a frustration, like, Yeah, somebody wants to exclusively follow the rules, and somebody says, Come on, man, you know, this could be a really important client relationship. Let's see what we can do for this, this new client. And then the other colleague says, No, we're not going to budge. Just sell them, you know. And, and learning that both sides are important. And both sides have probably present in an intercultural organization, it's learning to have that dialogue, and then deciding what is our collective cultural space? And how do we deal with those situations in a more constructive and culturally agile manner.

Shelley Reinhart: 45:46

So that I can eliminate and identify the bias that I have. Because if I lean one way, in a in a in a dimension of, you know, cultural preference, then I might have a bias towards someone who does it completely differently. So just being aware of those things you're saying is so helpful? And I can see that Yeah, yeah, well, that's great.

Marco Blankenburgh: 46:07

And that awareness, then, you know, you can't forever dance on, you know, on the cultural landscape, you have to eventually, especially as a leader, you will have to decide, we have, we see all these different ways of doing things and how we make decisions and how we reward people in how we talk to each other. A huge one is direct versus indirect communication. But ultimately, we have to decide who we want to be. And what I love about this approach is that once you understand your own behavior, your colleagues behavior, other people you work with across the network of your organization, you can use that same language to now say, who we want to be. So, so from personal culture, you then go to team or organizational culture, and it's very organic, it's the same, the same grid, it's the same language that you start using to then craft culture as a leader. And that's so incredibly important in today's world.

Shelley Reinhart: 47:09

Yes, I can see that. So that is, I was going to ask what are the key contributions that are culturally agile leader can bring, but you just described it. I think this whole everything you've said is this is what a culturally agile leader looks like. And brings,

Marco Blankenburgh: 47:27

yeah, and what would the impact did I see time and time again, I mentioned our high performing intercultural teaming journey. Leaders who take that series, they really know how to build high trust, which is a huge focus area right now. But they also create a culture or space that is inclusive, that creates a strong, deep sense of belonging. They also typically navigate complexity much better. They they hold ways of doing things loosely, of course, within the fabric of the organization with it, the the ethical practice model that they might be endorsing. They are really good at navigating complexity. And and the last thing I would say is that by doing that, by creating culture that we typically retention goes up. What we see is diversity done well, that leads to better collaboration, better communication. Also, we see teams who really create that third cultural space, they're much better at coming up with ideas and innovative solutions. So there's a compelling case to really take this serious. And yes, the last thing I would like to say is that as a coach, I have seen culturally agile leaders, who also are more coach like in the way they lead. They even take it to the next level. Because as a coach is mentioned are two of the three quarters of worldview. We have something called the litmus test and leaders who lead like coaches, they actually apply that litmus test, the way they engage with their people is trying to do right by their people. They're trying to honor their people. And they're trying to be empowering to their people are people want to be on the team, they get energized by being on the team. So being more coach, like using those three colors as a guide, do the right thing for your people, honor your people, and be empowering and engage with your people in such a way that they they want to get out of bed in the morning and be on your team.

Shelley Reinhart: 49:41

Oh, that's beautiful. That sounds like the kind of leader I want to be. Yeah, I love it. I want to Yeah, be an expert at creating that space. This has been so helpful, Marco. Boy. There's a lot you've introduced us to a lot of things to really reflect on.

Marco Blankenburgh: 50:02

And don't forget, you know that idea of micro improvements, start with small things. And don't think that you will be the expert overnight. There are many people on this journey. And there are also many people that are willing to help. We even have special specially trained coaches who specialize in AS certified into cultural coaches to help global leaders to develop their cultural agility. And working with somebody like that is incredibly powerful. So don't try and do it alone, either find colleagues, colleagues who are on the same journey, and work together and learn from each other, or, you know, bring a coach in for a while to help you accelerate the journey.

Shelley Reinhart: 50:47

That's a great idea. If someone is listening right now, and they want to find out more about the high performance, the team building that you talked about, how could they do that? What if they said, Yeah, I want to put my team through that? What do they do?

Marco Blankenburgh: 51:00

We'll put a link in the notes with the podcast so that we have a way of being in contact with one another. But also, we have some pretty good write ups on what that looks like, on our website. So you'll find more details on in the notes that accompany the podcast.

Shelley Reinhart: 51:18

Excellent, great. It's good to make all of those available. Thank you so much, Marco. This has been wonderful. I've learned a lot. I've taken lots of notes. As usual. Thank you.

Marco Blankenburgh: 51:31

Thank you, Shelly. This is such an important topic. So great to create the opportunity to talk about it.

Shelley Reinhart: 51:37

Excellent. We'll see you next time. Thank you.

Marco Blankenburgh: 51:40

Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of the cultural agility podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, share it with someone. Best way to help us out is by leaving a review on your favorite podcast, app or channel or forward and recommend this podcast people around you. As always, if any of the topics we discussed today intrigue you, you will find links to articles discussing them in greater depth in the podcast notes. If you would like to learn more about intercultural intelligence and how you can become more culturally agile, you can find more information and hundreds of articles at knowledge works.com Special thanks to Jason Carter for composing the music on this podcast and to the whole knowledge works team for making this podcast a success. Thank you Anita Rodriquez, Ara as is back Ian Raji Suraj. And thanks to VIP and George for audio production, Roslyn Raj for scheduling, and Caleb Strauss for marketing and helping produce this podcast