Marco Blankenburgh | 00:00  
So, what we do with power right now in the world is very worrisome to me. The amount of expressed empathy in the world is sliding, the amount of narcissism in the world is growing. And if you put those two together, you have a more narcissistic society who is not so good at expressing empathy, who will eventually become the next generation of leaders in this world. 
So, I think we really need to equip children, young people with the skills to create a cultural space amongst each other, where they do right by each other, where they honor each other. And if they are in a position of power, they use it in a life -giving, empowering way to turn the tide. 
Welcome to the Cultural Agility Podcast, where we explore the stories of some of the most advanced Intercultural practitioners from around the world to help you become culturally agile and succeed in today's culturally complex world. I'm your host, Marco Blankenburgh, International Director of KnowledgeWorkx, where every day we help individuals and companies achieve relational success in that same complex world. 
shel | 01:21  
Hello, my name is Shelley Reinhart, and I get the distinct honor today of interviewing Marco Blankenburgh. He is the International Director of KnowledgeWorkx, where I have the privilege of working. And I am the Global Network Liaison and the Director of Education Services here at KnowledgeWorkx. I really love working here. I love this job, and I really enjoy working with Marco. And I'm really excited to ask him questions today and pick his brain a little. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 01:54  
It's so nice to switch roles. I love this. I'm the guest on the. 
shel | 01:59  
Podcast. Awesome. Yes. 
So, Marco, I would love for people to get to know you the way we do in the office a bit. So I'd love for you to tell me your story. Five minutes -ish, you know, tell me your story. Highlights. Who are you? Yes. Wow. Highlights. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 02:20  
Highlights only. Well, I was born in the Netherlands in a new village on Harbor Road. And yes, I did live below sea level behind the dikes. And being on Harbor Road, at the end of Harbor Road, you could see the ships come by above the dike. Wow. 
So our house was about five meters, so what is that, 15 feet below sea level on reclaimed land. So I did wear clogs as a kid. 
shel | 02:50  
Wooden clogs. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 02:51  
Wooden shoes. Wooden shoes, yeah. And we lived in a small village with 1 ,100 people, three churches and 3 ,000 cows. 
So very much countryside and very monocultural. Despite that, my mom tells me I was six when I first said that I wanted to go international. I wanted to explore the world. And I still remember we had a teacher in primary. On Friday afternoon, he would say, okay, no more classes. I'm going to read stories. And he had a storybook that covered stories from all over the world. And that was my famous, my favorite time in school. Wow. On Friday afternoon, that last hour of storytelling. And I was a bit of a dreamer. 
So even when they did my absolute testing, they said, he's too much of a dreamer. He won't be anywhere in academia. But I was dreaming about the world already when I was a little kid. 
Yeah. I have three younger brothers. I was raised in a business family. 
So we all put our shoulders under the business from when we were young, given responsibilities. And in retrospect, that has shaped me tremendously as a young kid. And when it comes to now where I am today, sort of the first thing that was profound in my life, I was eight years old. And a Cornish family from the UK moved into our village with twin brothers. And we were a tiny village school. And these poor brothers were dumped in this Dutch -only village school because their dad had picked up a job at the local lumberyard. Wow. And I could see these boys struggle. 
shel | 04:40  
Did they speak Dutch? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 04:41  
Not a single word. No Dutch at all. 
So I made it my mission to get to know these boys. And I realized I need to learn English. 
So I went onto the loft and found my dad's Second World War musty English books. So I pulled them from the loft and I started to teach myself English. 
shel | 05:07  
Wow. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 05:08  
And automatically, of course, I became their friend because I was the only one who was trying. 
shel | 05:14  
And you could practice with them. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 05:15  
I could practice with them. And that's how I actually started learning my first language, besides Dutch. Eight years old. 
Yeah. So it's actually, yeah, it was actually very special. The family didn't last very long. I think culture shock got the best of them. And they went back to the UK. But for me, it was very significant that happened. And ever since then, I've always been intrigued by other. And that has continued until today. Wow. Yes. 
So I finished high school. I finished my A -levels or my AP, they call it nowadays. And I was thinking, OK, what do I study so that I can go international? 
shel | 06:00  
Even then, at 18? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 06:02  
Yeah, absolutely. And I was actually a bit scared to go too specific. I was intrigued by the world of agriculture because I grew up in it. I worked on farms when I was a kid. I loved it. 
So I was looking, OK, you could study tropical agribusiness, for instance. But I thought, OK, that's too scary because then I'm hooked. 
shel | 06:22  
Then you have to go tropical. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 06:24  
I have to go overseas. So in the end, I studied ag economics and crop management and then added a degree in strategic marketing to it. And I'm happy I didn't go too specific because ultimately that allowed me much more of the flexibility. But I did end up international. I had the privilege to then, in those days, we still had to do military service. 
shel | 06:52  
OK. It was compulsory. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 06:55  
It was still compulsory. We were some of the last under European NATO. And I had the privilege of actually joining the Green Berets, which again was a beautiful way to shape me as a young man, discipline, suffering, responsibility, not just for yourself or for your battalion or your squad, but for the nation. 
So all those things did shape me. And straight away after that, I saw the opportunity to go to the Middle East. And I landed in Jordan. I was 23. And I studied Arabic, which was my fourth language at that time, in the hope to then start working in the agricultural industry in the Middle East. 
shel | 07:39  
Wow. Yeah. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 07:40  
So that was 23. In Jordan. You said five minutes. No, Actually not. 
shel | 07:46  
That's good. Was that your first long -term stay overseas in Jordan? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 07:51  
I had done a research stint in Israel. 
shel | 07:56  
OK. So that was your first. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 07:57  
Yeah, researching computerized farming. Wow. I did a longer stint in New Zealand where I lived in Christchurch, working with another agricultural research institute there. And so I was continuously going international. I volunteered over the summer with some NGOs across Europe in different places. 
So continuously drawn to the otherness and discovering people who are different from me. And. 
shel | 08:26  
That explains why we have so many beautiful plants in the office and why you're so good at keeping them alive. I didn't know this agricultural background. 
Yeah. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 08:38  
It stays with you. Once you have green fingers, it never leaves. 
shel | 08:41  
You. I see that. Wow. That is awesome. 
So 23 in Jordan, learning Arabic. And then where did you go? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 08:50  
So I had ideas to go into Saudi Arabia because they were investing a lot in the agricultural side. And I knew that Arabic would be essential. In the end, that didn't happen. 
So I actually started working for an NGO and became a regional coordinator with them. And at the same time, I got involved in sustainable development and upliftment of refugee communities. 
So we had refugee communities in Egypt, in Jordan, in Lebanon, and we produced handicrafts with them. And then we shipped it off to Europe for sales. We helped them with product development, design, quality assurance. And that became actually quite big. 
So with our partners in Egypt, we had, for instance, more than 300 Sudanese refugees in Cairo working with us. So it was beautiful actually to see how something small could actually be so meaningful for hundreds and hundreds of people. 
shel | 09:52  
So you were working with people very different than you. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 09:56  
Yes, and requiring Arabic continuously. And of course, culturally very different. Not only that the fact that they were in a traumatic situation in a country that wasn't always friendly to them. 
So those were sometimes tough situations. But that's where I realized how important being what we now call culturally agile is. And the mistakes you make when you just think yeah, sure, I've explained it, and they're going to do it exactly the way we had agreed. 
And then when you walk away and you come back three months later, you realize, no, they've done it in the culturally appropriate way amongst themselves. And learning that my world was not their world, and I couldn't force my way into their world. I had to really become part of them and come alongside them to then say, how do we move things forward together in a way that resonates with your community and it doesn't go against your culture? 
So I didn't know any of the Intercultural intelligence framework, the tools that we've developed now. So I guess the mistakes I made during those years really shaped me in a positive way. In retrospect, yes, plenty of embarrassing moments, but at the same time, stepping stones into the future. 
shel | 11:28  
I can see the seeds of Knowledge Works in those years. You know, that's where you started working Intercultural and really trying to relate to people. 
Yeah. Wow. 
And then after Jordan, where did you go? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 11:41  
So Jordan, well, there's a little bit of an important thing that happened. And that is that I was traveling internationally and one of my trips, I had landed in South Africa. And that's where I met a beautiful lady who is now my wife. 
So we left Jordan in 1998 to get married. Yeah, we met in South Africa. 
shel | 12:05  
Wow. So you met her in Jordan? No, in South Africa. In South Africa. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 12:11  
And then later on, she joined for a while just to say, hey, is this Middle Eastern thing something for me? So… Good for her. Check it out. Yes. 
And then in 1999, we got married. And that's where we said, okay, we really want to be in the Middle East, but what would it look like to go back? I could easily pick up a senior leadership role with any of the companies that I had already connected with. But we held back on that. 
And then that's where the idea of starting our own business eventually was born. 
shel | 12:46  
And she was part of that. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 12:47  
She was part of that, despite the fact that my wife is an artist, a musician, much more on the creative side of things. 
shel | 12:55  
Lovely. Yes. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 12:56  
So, but that, I think that combination has been a beautiful combination. Me being more the entrepreneur and having her creative insights and more creative angle on ideas has been really helpful. 
shel | 13:12  
So, is that when KnowledgeWorkx was born? Like that…. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 13:18  
It was born at that time, but it was very simple. We had initially the idea to bring international speakers into the UAE, but there was immediately an Intercultural snag with that idea. There's plenty of international speakers, but what we wanted is we wanted the speakers to connect with the local audience on the terms of the local audience, not on the speakers' terms. 
So, we discovered that famous people don't always want to change. 
shel | 13:56  
Accommodate. Yeah. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 13:58  
You know, which jokes do they tell, what type of activities are appropriate, which pictures do they have in their slideshows, all those types of things. And we realized the hard way that some people just said, no, stay away from my content. It's my IP. I'm not going to change anything. I'm willing to come to this part of the world on my terms. 
So, slowly but surely, we realized that we ended up with a very short list of speakers. And that's where we said, okay, now, how do we create something that's truly meaningful and that's culturally agile? And that's where we looked at our team. We had a team of five from four continents. And we discovered between us we have a lot of Intercultural experience, close to 100 years at that time. And that's what we started working with. And so, we pivoted the company a bit. We still have international speakers. Yes. But we pivoted the company to say, can we birth something from what we have amongst us as a team? And that's where eventually the Intercultural intelligence toolbox and methodology came from. 
shel | 15:09  
Wow. So, it was originally speakers. 
And then you thought, how can we use our intercultural knowledge to help others be successful in Intercultural environments? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 15:20  
Exactly. Exactly. 
shel | 15:21  
And is that where, was it during that time that the Three Colors of Worldview was created? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 15:28  
Yes. One of my colleagues from Canada, he connected with a gentleman who was doing some research in the region. And he came up with the idea of looking at what we now call cultural drivers. 
So, the deeper cultural drivers that are continuously there as our thinking, speaking, and acting develops. And there was, of course, plenty of research. There's several gentlemen from the Netherlands who've done a lot of work. Hofstede, Trompenaars, Hall from the US in the 50s, 60s already. Plenty of research on what they call polarities, so cultural opposites. Yes. But my colleague, Jim, brought back to the office was much deeper than that. 
So, the idea that, you know, what drives me as a cultural human being? Is it about honor? Is it about doing the right thing? Is it about how powerful I am or how we're unpositioned in the hierarchy? 
So, those three things, we started playing with that. We got permission from the gentleman who wrote that original flyer, basically. And he said, yeah, if you can take it further, go for it. And we started to play with those three. 
So, doing the right thing, doing what is honorable, doing that, which gives you power, influence, position. And that became the Three Colors of Worldview. Wow. 
shel | 16:53  
Why three colors? Why did you say Three Colors of Worldview? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 16:56  
Well, we needed a metaphor. So, my wife is an artist. I see. 
So, the world of color has two color schemes, CMYK and RGB. And we don't attach any value to the actual colors, but we chose three colors as in RGB has three. 
So, it's easy to remember. Yes. And that's where it came from. And symbolically, what it says is that there's no person in the world who's purely driven by honor or only driven by doing the right thing or by gaining influence or power. 
So, we're always a cocktail. So, colors are always blended. Yes. And there's many colors that can be made from three, red, green, and blue. 
So, that's where the name came. 
shel | 17:43  
From. I love that. I love that picture. I love that metaphor. 
So many colors created by the three basic worldviews. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 17:51  
Absolutely. So, there's a lot of thinking about worldview out there. 
shel | 17:52  
What is a worldview? Can you just explain what a worldview is and why does it matter? Now. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 18:01  
What we have decided to focus on is just the cultural piece around worldview. So, there's worldview related to spirituality, etc. But what we said is that thinking around worldview related to culture is very underdeveloped. Yes. 
So, we said, okay, your worldview as a cultural human being, how can you put a language around it that is neutral in and of itself? So, it's not accusing. It's not saying the one is better than the other. It's neutral. And how can we build an assessment around it, which we eventually did. And that has proven to be really helpful for people. 
shel | 18:42  
So, neutral language. There's no right, wrong, good, bad. 
Like, if you're this, it's…. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 18:48  
Absolutely. And there's no perfect mix. Yes. It's just to give you a language to articulate who you are as a cultural human being and who I might be as a cultural human being. And once you get to understand that, you start to understand why you are driven culturally to do things in a certain way. 
So, for instance, if you are raised in a context where doing the right thing goes above everything, then that might mean that you go against the general feel in the family, for instance. That means that you can raise your hand in class and say to the teacher, I disagree with you. Yes. Because to do the right thing encourages you to do that. If you're raised in a context where honor goes above everything, then the honor is typically connected to your family. And that might mean that even if you disagree with your mom or dad, you might stay quiet because the honor of the family goes above everything. Or when it comes to the classroom, you might not raise your hand because maybe the teacher will not like the question that you're about to ask. 
And then it's safer to just not say anything. 
shel | 20:04  
And maintain her honor as well as your own. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 20:07  
Yeah, exactly. And when it comes to power, we have many friends living in Dubai who came from a more power hierarchy -oriented context. And everything is about how can I associate with powerful people? How can I serve them well? And how can I use that to gain influence in society? 
So, it's a very different way of thinking. On the outside, it might look similar, but the whole motivation, the thinking, speaking, and acting behind it is driven by that cultural worldview. And that has proven to be very helpful for people to discover it and then to say, okay, my worldview, cultural worldview is different from yours. Now, what do we do? Right. How do we build a. 
shel | 20:54  
Bridge? So, you're saying that those drivers sort of intuitively shape who I am, how I relate, what I'm looking for in life. 
Can you give just another example of say…. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 21:10  
Well, I was raised in the Netherlands where being in a right -wrong setting, it's encouraged to come up with your own ideas. And I still remember my being the oldest son, my parents were running a very successful business, but I was already from a young age on a different path. And I still remember once I had chosen my university direction, that's when my dad started talking to me about future and the business and handing it over. I have never felt the pressure from my parents that, no, you're the oldest son, you have to take over the business. And I'm glad, I'm thankful for that. But that's a classical illustration of an innocent girl, the right -wrong way of thinking. I have friends in this part of the world where that's not even discussed. It's just assumed the oldest son takes over the business. And the oldest son will never even try something else. That is maybe a newer generation that might still be happening, but the honor of the family is directly connected to the oldest son taking over the business. And you don't even have to talk about it. They just organize their lives, the family, the choices that the oldest son makes automatically lead up to that moment where he will take over the business. Wow, yeah. 
Yeah, there's a very different driver, different ways of going about life, how you make your choices. 
shel | 22:49  
And it's hard if you're in one worldview to really understand the other. Absolutely. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 22:55  
Because. 
shel | 22:55  
You know, from an innocent skill perspective, I might say, well, doesn't he have a choice? Choice is so important. I should be given my rights and a choice. And he would say, the honor -shame man would say what? He. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 23:09  
Would say, my choice has already been made. The honor of the family dictates that I will take over the business. And to give you another example, we worked with a school that was on the three colors, predominantly honor -shame, and hierarchy was very important. Power was very important. You could see that with influential families that were sending their kids to that school. 
So the head of counseling knew about our work. And she said, I really would like you to do a psychometric workshop for our high schoolers. They're two years away from graduating. And we want them to discover who they are. And we want them to see what that means for the choices they're going to make in the future. 
So we mapped it out. We sent it to the principal of the school. And he said, well, I need to discuss it with the board. And the board has parents represented on it. And it was a definitive no. This is not going to happen. 
So we were going to work with 300 of their high schoolers. But the parents were in uproar. And they said, you're not going to do that. My son already will become an engineer. My daughter already will become a doctor. It's already set in stone. You're not going to help them explore who they are and what that might mean for the choices they're going to make about their future. 
So it's a classic example of how deep these drivers actually sit. 
shel | 24:47  
Yes. Yes. And what about power? Can you just talk about power a little bit? If you're raised where hierarchy and loyalty are your drivers, what does that look like? 
Well. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 24:59  
First thing I want to say is that if you're listening to this, very likely when you hear the word power, there might be a negative association with it. We live in a world where even if you look at the way democracy is eroding around the world, unfortunately, if there are more hierarchical top -down leadership systems in place, very often they tend to be on the negative side. 
So one of the biggest challenges I think in our world is our association with the word power. 
shel | 25:34  
I would agree. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 25:35  
And it's therefore one of the things we need to figure out how to do better. Yes. 
So don't allow yourself to be influenced by your negative association with power. I would say power needs to be explored so that especially with the young generation, we learn how to use power in a positive way. Yes. Yes. We talk about power being used to be life -giving. We all have the negative stories where power sucked the life out of you. 
You know, I had a teacher in high school, a French teacher, because he used to suck the life out of the pupils. He would look around the classroom and he would smell if somebody hadn't done their homework and he purposely put you in front of the class. And it's the reason why I didn't choose French. 
shel | 26:28  
Yes, so much influence. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 26:30  
He used power in a negative way. It really sucked the life out of you. But being able to use power in a positive way, being life -giving and empowering is so desperately needed in this world. 
So it's something we have to pass on to the young generation. If you're in education, you know how to instill a healthy use of power at an early age. And in the workplace, we all know power is very often used in a negative way. One in six companies right now have empowering as one of their values at the moment. And they're all struggling to implement it because they don't know how to turn the tide of how power is used. 
Yeah. 
shel | 27:11  
You know, I was just listening to our last podcast where Ming Jinn was a guest. And something he said really, I just cannot stop thinking about it. How when you're in power, when you have power, you don't know, you don't understand. But when, you know, if you want to understand power, talk to the powerless. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 27:31  
Yeah, that was beautiful. And I think I was, as he said that, I thought, is that really true? And the more I thought about it, the more I realized, yeah, because if you're in power, we have a situation like that in one of the royal families in the region here in the Gulf, where I knew one of the people in charge of a lot of the staff that was working with the royal family. And I asked him about the three colors of worldview. How do you experience working for the royal family? And their answer was, this is definitely a power fear environment. Interesting. 
And then listening to the family themselves, they said, no, honor is the most important thing for us. So the powerful, as Ming Jinn said on that podcast, they don't always understand what is happening with the people that serve them or that are reporting to them. Yes. 
shel | 28:31  
Yeah. I think that is true across the board, even for teachers to think about the power you have in a classroom. Yeah. How do you understand that unless you talk to your students who experience, you know, your affectation of power? 
Yeah. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 28:45  
Yeah. Yeah. I've heard somebody say last week, my teacher will be careful how you phrase a question with her. 
shel | 28:52  
Yeah, exactly. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 28:54  
And the teacher probably doesn't intentionally project that. But if only they would tell her, and it was a lady in that case, but if only they would tell her. It's like your students are very careful in how they ask you questions. 
shel | 29:07  
She probably would be shocked, would be my guess. Yeah. 
So that brings me to the question. When you understand your worldview, your personal self -culture, you understand it. And you're looking and interacting with people from different worldviews. What can happen? How does it change you? How does it change how you interact and see the world? Why does it matter? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 29:30  
Yeah, it matters because if you don't figure that out, you will be at loggerheads with one another. So if you want to succeed with people who are different from you have to figure it out. You have to, what we call, create a third cultural space. 
So you have to create a culture together that works for the two of you or the 10 of you or the 100 of you. So, first of all, there is always this initial battle because culture sits so deep, especially these three cultural drivers. I would say we work with psychometric tools as well. 
You know, you work with MBTI a lot. I work with the DISC profile a lot. I would say the cultural drivers sit even deeper than our personality profile or our behavioral style. 
So the first thing that always happens is people say, yeah, what? I need to consider those other ones as well. Right. My whole life was wired around do the right thing, avoid doing the wrong thing. I've heard we did a lot of work in Afghanistan. And one of our facilitators told this story. I thought it was hilarious. He introduced the three colors of worldview to bring two tribes, two warlords and the fighters loyal to them, bring them together. And he explained the three colors of worldview. And the initial, after they got it, the comments were, well, we understand honor. We understand power. But how in the world can there be people who only make choices based on doing the right thing? 
shel | 31:05  
I love that. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 31:10  
So the first thing is like, wow, what are the consequences of even believing that there are three drivers and that they are equal? They are all valid. One isn't better than the other. 
And then to recognize that very likely one of them, especially the one that is least like you, your natural thinking, your mind is to find the negatives about that one. Yes. 
So if honor, shame is your lowest, you'll find a lot of negative examples why that one is bad. If power fear is your lowest, you'll find lots of negative examples why, I'm so happy I have less of that and more of right, wrong or of innocence, guilt. 
So learning to come to a place where you see them as equals and say, yeah, I can see honor is important in avoiding shame, how that can really be core of how people make choices. Or power, you know, influence, getting influence in the world. I can see how that can totally be the true north for somebody. Yes. 
So once you get there, you see them as equals, then you can start creating that third cultural space. 
shel | 32:22  
Beautiful. Yeah. Speaking of that, can you just give me a snapshot of what is beautiful about all three worldviews and why we need all three? That's a really. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 32:34  
Good question. Yeah, because ultimately you can pursue doing the right thing, but in that process you can shame people around you. 
shel | 32:48  
Yes. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 32:48  
You can pursue doing the right thing, but then as a result, you can step on people. 
shel | 32:55  
Yes. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 32:56  
Where you become bigger and they become smaller. And as a result of that, we actually start losing people. And there's been many examples where then retention in companies starts to drop and people start leaving. 
And then you just have to climb on websites like Glassdoor and you read, you know, the disgruntled employee statements there. Why did they leave the company? And very often it's because they might do the right thing, but at the expense of something else. Yes. They might use power, but they use power in a negative way. They suck the life out of people and they leave. They might pursue honor at all costs, but then things get sweeped under the carpet. And that eventually sees the light. 
And then people start saying, wait a minute, the company claims to be on the outside is very different from who they are on the inside. So figuring out how to bring all three of them together is incredibly important. 
So we talk about if you want to create the third cultural space with people together, can you create a space where you do right by people, where you honor people and where that culture is empowering and life giving to people? And if you miss one of them, you actually create a culture that's not as healthy. 
So we always say all three are important. You need to figure out what's beautiful about them and then you bring them together. 
So doing the right thing, obviously, pursuing things consistently as a group. That's what innocence, guilt, and oriented people are really good at. You predefine, here's how we're going to do it. And here are the boundaries. Here's some checks and balances. Let's move forward. 
shel | 34:45  
Excellent. Yes. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 34:46  
And there might be exceptions to the rule, but consistency and reliability and predictability is one of the gifts of right -wrong thinking. I see that. Honor, shame, I think, really helps you to think about the group and helps you to think about what does it mean to work for this organization, to be in this school, to work for this NGO, to be part of this family. How do we bring honor to each other? How do we bring honor to the resources we have, the relationships that we are allowed to manage? And how do we bring honor to the world? 
shel | 35:21  
It's. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 35:21  
Beautiful. And with Power of Here, using power in a life -giving way, in essence, every time you take the microphone, for instance, you're in a position of power. You just mentioned as a teacher in front of the classroom, in a position of power. I was the oldest brother. 
shel | 35:39  
It's a position of power. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 35:40  
It's a position of power that unfortunately sometimes I messed it up. As parents, if you have kids. Yes. If you are volunteering in a community. 
So there's so many places where we have a position of power. And if we know how to be life -giving with that, it has lifetime ramifications. Think of, you know, the soccer coach when I was a little kid and how he took that position of power to really encourage, not focus on, you messed it up again, but really saying, hey, you know, you're going in the right direction, you know, let's do it again, you know. And really encouraging and celebrating success and scaffolding, you know, mess ups. Yes. And using power in that way shapes a life. 
So each one of them has beautiful things to contribute. 
shel | 36:35  
Yes, I see it. I love that. In essence, too, can you just paint a picture of how the three worldviews kind of play out on a world stage? 
Like, are we seeing the worldviews when we read the news, when we're looking at what's happening in the world? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 36:54  
I can't help but see them everywhere because it's so much part of my wiring now. 
shel | 37:01  
Yes, me too now, thanks to you. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 37:04  
But yeah, I would say one of the difficult things at the moment on the world stage is that very often the powerful people of the world are unfortunately not always life -giving with the way they use their power. Very true. I don't want to necessarily dig into some big world events, but when I say that, everybody can think of either local situations, national or international situations. 
So the question then is if that's perceived by one nation that another nation is not using power in the right way, how are they going to respond? And that's what I'm always looking for in the news. 
shel | 37:45  
Interesting. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 37:46  
So, you know, there is one nation who sees their leader as the hero and they are loyal to death to that leader. But that is received on the other side of the globe as an abuse of power and as in you are killing the nation, etc., etc. And that is on both sides of the fence. And it destroys dialogue, it destroys trust. That's the biggest thing that's happening. Yes, there's no trust. It creates segregation across the world, but in nations. 
So what we do with power right now in the world is very worrisome to me. Especially if you then combine that with the fact that empathy has slowly been slipping, the amount of expressed empathy in the world is sliding, the amount of narcissism in the world is growing. And if you put those two together, you have a more narcissistic society who is not so good at expressing empathy, who will eventually become the next generation of leaders in this world. Yes. 
So I think we really need to equip children, young people with the skills to create a cultural space amongst each other where they do right by each other, where they honor each other. And if they are in a position of power, they use it in a life -giving, empowering way to turn the tide. 
shel | 39:09  
Can you paint me a picture of a world, say, a very important world leader understands the three world views, understands his own and is looking at the world through those lenses. What would that look like? How would that change leader… No, Yes. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 39:25  
Things? That's a tough question. Because if I mention a name of a world but automatically there is always going to be flaws. 
So, for instance, I saw a flicker of hope with Belgium recently. So Belgium used to have the Congo as a colony. And there's been a lot of atrocities that were committed there. And it's a neighboring country. My youngest brother is married to a lady from Belgium. 
So I followed the politics there. And last week, the current king of Belgium went to the DRC to officially apologize and start a process of reconciliation. And it was beautiful. 
shel | 40:13  
My goodness. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 40:16  
There was one of the princesses from the royal family who was interviewed on the BBC. And the willingness to admit that power was abused and that reconciliation is needed. And we as a royal family want to finally start this process. It's way too late, but we're now starting it. And it's going to unfold in years and years to come. 
shel | 40:40  
But they're. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 40:41  
Committed. They're committed to it now. But it took a long time to have the humility to admit we really messed up here. 
So I was hopeful when I saw that story starting and hitting the public news. 
shel | 40:56  
That's beautiful. My goodness. 
Yeah. So that's an example of their—. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 41:01  
They are trying to reach out. And there were interviews in the DRC with people. Hey, what do you think? With the powerless. It's coming. Way too late, of course, but what do you think? By and large, people were actually appreciative. They said, yes, it's too late, but we're happy that it's starting. 
shel | 41:25  
Do you think three colors should be required reading Slack understanding for diplomacy? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 41:32  
Absolutely. I mean, if you just look at how Edward T. Hall in the 50s, 60s started with equipping diplomats. 
shel | 41:40  
I didn't know that's how he started. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 41:41  
That's how he started. And I think it just—there's just too many—you read articles in the newspaper or you hear how one politician responded to another politician. And continuously, they misunderstand honor. They misunderstand what it means for them to do the right thing, or they misunderstand the power play in the local context. 
And then they misfire. Yes. They criticize each other in the wrong way. They call each other names. And it's so unnecessary. It's really unnecessary. 
So, yeah, if we can get this into all diplomatic training, that would, I think, be really helpful for our world. 
shel | 42:26  
I agree. And it's so simple. It's so simple to understand. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 42:30  
Yeah, and once you know it, you can't unsee. 
shel | 42:31  
It. You can't unsee it. I see it everywhere in every book I read, every character in every novel. All the movies. 
Yeah. What worldview are they coming from? What's their driver? What's their motivators? 
Yeah, it just happens naturally. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 42:45  
It's a little bit of a challenge because once you understand it, you know that a character is shaped by honor or shaped by power or by doing the right thing. It does take a bit of spoiler alert because it's much easier to predict what's going to happen next. 
shel | 43:03  
That's very true. And I love our YouTube channel where we have this compilation of all these movies that represent each. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 43:10  
Worldview. Yeah, that's been fun over the years. Every time people say, hey, have you watched this movie? 
And then we have people who review them, snip the shorter clips, and then we give the illustration. So now I think we're close to 300 clips on our channel. And It's everywhere. 
shel | 43:27  
I'm sure we'll just keep adding more because it's everywhere. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 43:30  
Yeah. 
shel | 43:32  
I love it. This has been such a wonderful conversation. Thank you. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 43:38  
I'm having fun sitting in the guests. 
shel | 43:41  
I mean, I know all of what you're saying. I've heard you say some of it before, but it's so great to hear you say it in one chunk and understand the journey of Knowledge Works and where the seeds of really trying to understand culture were planted in. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 43:57  
You. The journey will continue. There's so much to learn in this world. The more I dive into the Intercultural space, the more I realize how much I don't know. And the more I get excited about the fact that we have hundreds and hundreds of practitioners around the world. Yes. And we're learning so much from them. And I know, Shelley, you know, you being involved in our network, frontlining some of those stories that we hear from every continent. It's just, yeah, I'm excited about how much we are going to learn together. Yes. 
shel | 44:33  
It's really beautiful work. People are really taking this and making a difference in their companies and their schools and their neighborhoods. And yeah, it's powerful. Thank you. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 44:47  
Thank you. Thank. 
shel | 44:48  
You so much for starting Knowledge Works, doing this work. I feel very honored to be a part of it. 
So thank you so much. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 44:59  
If you've listened to this podcast before, you may have heard us talk about the Intercultural Intelligence Certification Program. It's an amazing 15 -week journey, and the next one launches in September. You'll join a small cohort for weekly sessions and learn to use tools like the Three Colors of Worldview and the Cultural Mapping Inventory. After finishing, you will join our network of over 600 practitioners in 70 countries to equip the world with cultural agility. To sign up, look for the link in the show notes, and I really hope you can join us in September. 
shel | 45:34  
So in order to wrap up our conversation, and just to get to know you a little better, I'd love to ask you some rapid -fire questions. You just answer off the cuff. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 45:44  
Okay. Are you ready? 
shel | 45:45  
Yeah. All right. What is the most interesting place you've ever visited? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 45:50  
Iguazu Falls. Where's that? In Brazil. If you've seen Paddington, where orange marmalade comes from. 
shel | 45:56  
That's. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 45:59  
Yes! That was amazing. I wish I had more time there, but I was there for a leadership conference. Wow. It's absolutely breathtaking. 
shel | 46:09  
Okay, put on my list. What are you currently reading? What am. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 46:13  
I currently reading? Noise, by Daniel Kahneman. Very sobering. 
shel | 46:21  
Really? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 46:22  
Yes. We think we're objective. We think we are rational decision makers. But he points to an awful lot of noise in the system that makes us not so rational and not so objective. 
But it's good. It's challenging, but it's really good to be looking in that mirror. 
shel | 46:46  
Okay. What's your favorite podcast that you kind of come to again and again? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 46:53  
I have a few, but at the moment I would say Intelligence Squared. Yeah. 
Solid, good journalism, challenging subjects, willing to put contentious voices on. Intelligence Squared. And more not superficial stuff. 
You know, do a deep dive, get some opposite opinions to talk to each other. So I enjoy that. 
shel | 47:17  
Great. What's your favorite splurge? Splurge? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 47:21  
Yeah. As It depends where I am. 
shel | 47:22  
In? Like if you just want to have some self -care, do some self -care, what do you splurge on? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 47:31  
As a Dutch boy, I fell in love with Dutch licorice. 
So my wife knows that. So she found some licorice the other day and says, yeah, I'll be happy as a child with a nice bag of licorice. 
shel | 47:47  
Wonderful. If you could play a sport professionally, that was your career, what sport would you play? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 47:56  
I would say I would go sailing. 
shel | 48:02  
Sailing. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 48:03  
Especially catamaran high speed. I grew up in Zeeland. Yes. Next to the sea. And the thrill of working with the sea, the waves, the wind, and going high speed over the water. I still love it. Wow. 
shel | 48:25  
Best rock band. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 48:27  
Best rock. Well, I'm more the adult oriented rock guy. AOR. It tells my age. I would still, that era for me, Kansas is still Cary Lovegren and Kansas. I love what they've done. 
shel | 48:48  
Love them. Yes. Scariest hike you've ever been on where you were actually nervous? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 48:56  
There's two. There was one in New Zealand where we were on a very narrow path and we were warned the weather can change just like that. 20 minutes. We went up in shorts and a t -shirt and we had, before we hit the top, we were almost blown off the face of the rock. We ended up on top. The weather had changed so much that we had to find a shelter. Fortunately, there was four of us, so we worked together and we weathered the storm literally. The other one, that was, I do, I did a lot of climbing, even in the military we did a lot of climbing. That never bothered me. I never had fear of heights. But when I first started doing stuff with my kids, fear, not for myself, but for the fact that I'm doing this with my little ones. 
shel | 49:46  
That. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 49:53  
That was a new experience for me. 
shel | 49:57  
Yes, that they could potentially fall. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 49:59  
Yeah. And I became super careful as a result of that. Yes. 
shel | 50:05  
What was your favorite class in university? The one that you're like, yes, love this. What shaped you? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 50:13  
I love nature and this might sound weird. One of my degrees was in crop management. And we had an amazing teacher who taught plant physiology. How do plants actually work? Hormones in plants and nutrients. How do they actually get to turn a plant into foliage or seeds or fruit, etc. And I was fascinated by that. It was the way he taught it, but I really enjoyed that subject. On the business side, it was, I love strategy. 
So anything to do with strategic forecasting, I come alive. 
shel | 50:59  
Yes, I hear you talk about that often. What's the most difficult bad habit you've ever kicked? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 51:06  
I can't say I have fully kicked it. But I have a weird problem with procrastination. I typically get mostly everything done within a decent amount of time. But every now and then there is just one thing. It's random. I have no idea how it ends up at the bottom of the list and stays at the bottom of the list. I still don't know how it works. Most issues, I deal with them quite promptly. But then there's just one or two things. And I say, why did I not do this yet? How did it stay there at the bottom of the list? 
shel | 51:48  
One day there'll be a book really written about that. What's one world leader that you admire, living or dead? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 51:59  
Wow, that's a tough one. I really admired what Nelson Mandela did when he came out of jail, Robben Island, and how he had a whole plan. I had the privilege to be on Robben Island, spend a few days there, just hearing the stories. And I'm married into South Africa. 
So it's become very important for us to understand history. And if there was one country with a change of power that was so radical from a part height to the ANC, that should have been in civil war, it was South Africa. And it didn't happen. 
shel | 52:43  
Because of Nelson Mandela. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 52:44  
And I think him having such a clear pathway into the future. I think a lot of prayers were prayed in South Africa during that time as well. 
Yeah, it's just beautiful to see how he navigated that. 
shel | 52:58  
Yeah, see that. Your favorite plant? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 53:05  
My favorite plants. Man. It's not necessarily because of, you know, the aesthetically or anything, but there is a group of plants that are very easy to keep, and they clean the air in your office and in your house. 
shel | 53:23  
Do we have some in our office? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 53:24  
Yeah, and they are about 10 feet tall in the office. Philodendrons. They're very grateful plants, and they're very easy to grow. And they're just beautiful presents, lots of leaves, and they have a good function as well in the office. 
shel | 53:42  
Space. So you like both? 
Yeah. Yes. Last question. If you could have done anything else, what would you have done? If you had to go back and choose another path, what would excite you? 
Marco Blankenburgh | 54:03  
My kids joke with me that I should have become a spy. 
shel | 54:09  
Okay. A spy, I love it. Using the world views to navigate. 
Yeah. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 54:17  
It's probably because as an Intercultural, wherever I go, I'm always checking out things, I'm always exploring, I'm always talking, you know, getting to know the local context. And I always know things very quickly. It's just how I'm wired. 
So probably that's why they joke about it. But the other thing is, Jacques Cousteau was one of my heroes as a kid. I always followed every movie, documentary that came out from him, and exploring the world, especially the world of nature. 
So I would have loved to do that. 
shel | 54:54  
Awesome. Awesome. Thank you, Marco. I've learned more about you through these questions. 
Marco Blankenburgh | 55:03  
Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of the Cultural Agility Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, share it with someone. The best way to help us out is by leaving a review on your favorite podcast app or channel, or forward and recommend this podcast to people around you. As always, if any of the topics we discussed today intrigue you will find links to articles discussing them in greater depth in the podcast notes. If you would like to learn more about Intercultural intelligence and how you can become more culturally agile, you can find more information and hundreds of articles at KnowledgeWorkx .com. A special thanks to Jason Carter for composing the music on this podcast, and to the whole Knowledgeworks team for making this podcast a success. Thank you, Nita Rodriguez, Ara Azizbekyan, Rajitha Raj, and thanks to Vip and George for audio production, Rosalind Raj for scheduling, and Caleb Strauss for marketing and helping produce this podcast.