The International Business of Music with Iain Wilson

Iain Wilson: 0:00

Everything is done around relationship. I would say that that is true in the UK and right across right across the world. And particularly in Asia, a lot is done around the dinner table, around spending time together about learning about people's families and their children and what's important to them in life, not just, let's get in, let's get the deal done, let's get out of here.

Marco Blankenburgh: 0:41

Welcome to the cultural agility podcast, where we explore the stories of some of the most advanced intercultural practitioners from around the world, to help you become culturally agile, and succeed in today's culturally complex world. I'm your host, Marco Blankenburg, international director of knowledge works, where every day we help individuals and companies achieve relational success in that same complex world. Welcome, everyone today, to this next episode of our podcast. And today, I have Ian Wilson with us, a global businessman, entrepreneur, out of the out of the box, or I would even say beyond the box thinker. And I had the privilege of meeting in in 2012. And he has an amazing story to tell. And that's why I'm excited to have him on our podcast today. So in welcome. Thank you for joining us.

Iain Wilson: 1:44

Yeah, it's great to be here. Thank you very much.

Marco Blankenburgh: 1:46

So Ian, before we go into your story, I'd love to give you the chance to introduce yourself to our audience today.

Iain Wilson: 1:54

Okay, well, I was born in Belfast in Northern Ireland, which will become significant perhaps in some of the later questions when we deal with culture and various things. And I grew up here, enjoyed life in Belfast, and was fortunate that I had the opportunity from maybe when I was 15, to start traveling and to interact with other nations and and other people. And from a very young age, I have interest in business, actually completely illegal now. But from the age of eight, I started working just a little part time job brushing up sawdust in a butcher store, then started delivering newspapers and milk and lots of different things to earn money. And by the age of 11, I had purchased my first black and white television, back in the day that cost me 52 pounds back then, which was a lot of money for a late 11 year old. We're going back 40 years now or more. So yeah, so that that gave me a taste of business, a taste of earning money and working hard. And from there things began to grow.

Marco Blankenburgh: 3:12

It's amazing that at that early age, you're already had that business entrepreneurial mindset. You also say, from 15th, you started traveling. So it seems that that might have been the earlier days of being engaged into culturally in our world. Tell us a bit more about that. What What was that like?

Iain Wilson: 3:33

Actually, if the reason I mentioned Belfast in Northern Ireland was that my intercultural development was very much formed as a child because in Belfast we had what I was born in 1967. In 1969, we had what were called the troubles begin. And then reality it was terrorism under another name. We had a lot of bombings, a lot of shootings, people from two sides of a community that were fighting against each other. So I grew up effectively, being told that the other side were the enemy. And then, but at the same time growing up around other people of other religions that were absolutely my friends, and were by no means my enemy. So it was a real dichotomy of culture, growing up and understanding, if you like the two divides here and Northern Ireland, but I always had the desire to learn about other cultures to go see what was happening in the rest of the world realizing that in some respects, we were living in a bubble here. And there was a different world out there where perhaps not everybody hated themselves or was wanting to You know, shoot them, shoot the other side or whatever. So I, my first trip was actually with a bunch of young people. And we went to France. And when I was 15, again, I was the cutoff point was 16. But I managed to get special dispensation to go on that trip. And I was able to pay for that trip myself, because I was still working with all those jobs right through. And fact until I was 22, doing a bunch of different part time jobs to earn money. So I paid for that trip myself, and then had the opportunity to interact with a lot of young French kids and spend a few weeks in the legal area of France. And that gave me a real understanding that there are other cultures out there that are different. But in many respects, we're complementary. And in many respects, we have much more in common than we do the divides us. And so useful, that was a useful thing to take back then to Northern Ireland, as well. So

Marco Blankenburgh: 6:16

yeah, it sounds like some of the voices around you. You know, the other party is the enemy. It sounds like there was a what we then call, you know, more of a cultural critic narrative. And what you just mentioned about going to France, you discovered, hey, being a cultural loner, allows me to explore the world and meet people and discover that we're actually not so different, and that we can be friends and connect across cultures.

Iain Wilson: 6:43

Yeah, and that was very important lesson for somebody, you know, in Northern Ireland at that time to see that there was another world out there. I unfortunately, lived through many bombings, I went to school right in the center of Belfast, when we finish this meeting, I'm going to Chamber of Commerce event that is in a hotel in the centre of Belfast, which at one point in time had the title of being the most bombed hotel in the world. So things are very different now. Thanks, thank goodness, you know, and that we Belfast in Northern Ireland is much different place. So I'm really grateful for the peace accord that we had in 1998. And how that is held now, having just celebrated 25 years of that three weeks ago. So that's, that's, that's a positive.

Marco Blankenburgh: 7:39

Yeah. And you already mentioned that you were an entrepreneur at heart from a young age. Can you give us just the fast track into where you are today with the with IVC music?

Iain Wilson: 7:55

Yeah, I mean, effectively, when I was 16, I had a serious car accident, knocked my pelvis out by around 45 degrees. I got a an insurance payout. And at that time, I bought myself a really nice guitar. Because I was playing a little bit of music. I bought myself a lot and guitar and Irish made instrument with the money and started learning guitar playing more. And started really in the late 80s. Getting alongside the guys allowing guitars, I attended some music shows for them in Germany. I did some research for them into markets such as France, Spain, and Scandinavia to try to help them develop business. But at that time, they couldn't afford to employ me full time I was really doing it as a student to help them out while I was doing business studies. And then, in 1993, Loudon finally got to the point where they could employ me as a European sales manager and I joined them initially European sales manager and MChem, worldwide sales manager within about six months and develop their business across the globe, from 1993 right through to 2006. But also through that period, another US company had asked me to come to do some work for them lab and guitarist and acoustic guitar. Another US company who were into electric guitars, called Parker guitars, asked me to come and do some work for them. And that lasted about nine months. And I had actually funny story set up a tradeshow booth for them in Frankfurt at the major show, guitar show. And the morning of the show, I got a call from the CEO to say your services are no longer required. We just sold the company. And so he's like, Oh, great. But that led to one of the owners of Parker guitars was Larry Fishman, who makes guitar pickups he that asked me to join that company, who worked for for as a consultant, developing their international sales as well as setting up and managing their OEM operation in China. So that opened up a whole wealth of intercultural experience into territory and a country that initially I knew nothing about and had to learn very quickly how to interact with a what was for me a very foreign culture, and very foreign language. I mean, I spoke, I studied French at school, hence my interest. I actually lived in Germany for one year when I was studying business in 1989. So I spoke some German. And then later in life, I lived in Italy for 10 years, so I picked up Italian, but Chinese was completely foreign, and not a Latin based language that you can think of quite, you know, quite easily. So the intercultural intelligence learning curve in China was was steep, have to stay and challenging at times. But it's, it's a great nation, country that I love. And in fact, we'll head back there in summertime. And in later life, I ended up marrying a Chinese lady that in fact, I met in Belfast and not in China. Now I have two kids.

Marco Blankenburgh: 11:42

Now, people who are not familiar with the music industry, we have music as one common passion. You made it your profession as well, but loud and guitars in my days were born in the same year 67. So in my days, Eric Clapton, for instance, was allowed in Playa. Are there any other famous people that actually today play, play loud and guitars for those that are not initiated in the in the music industry?

Iain Wilson: 12:13

I should put a disclaimer in here that I stopped working for them in 2006. But I they're a great company and I still have great relationship with them. So probably the most famous right now would be Ed Sheeran. Right. And in fact, they have done a collaboration with Ed Sheeran. So they have Loudon, guitars at the very high end of the market, and then Sheeran guitars as a more affordable guitar. So if you watch any Ed Sheeran performance, you will see him playing either on the Loudoun or Sheeran.

Marco Blankenburgh: 12:47

Right, right. Now, you already mentioned that living in China, marrying into China steep learning curve interculturally. So in 2012, US you joined our intercultural intelligence certification. And I'm just curious at that point, what drew you to, to that, that certification? Why why did you join,

Iain Wilson: 13:16

I guess I had been a reasonable amount of experience both on holidays and business in European countries, I had since 2003, started traveling into China, although I didn't do any business there really until 2007, or eight. And I was keen just to get a better understanding of doing business with with other nations and some of the pitfalls and some of the things to look out for when you're dealing with people from from different cultures. Having grown up in this bubble, I felt, and I still feel even today that you always need to learn more, you'll always need to interact more you never stop learning. And dealing with people from other nations, there are certain advocates that you need to adhere to, there are certain things that you should and shouldn't do. And they can turn your business from being very successful or into massive failure. So it's important to learn them and hence my involvement in the intercultural intelligence certificate. And I would love to come back at some stage in the future and do more and interact again on

Marco Blankenburgh: 14:45

that. Yeah, that'd be fantastic. Now, when you think about I know it's a long time ago was 2012. But learning that framework learning, a way to quantify why people behave the way they do, learning, you know, more in a structured way to try and adjust your behavior to create more successful relationships. And as you mentioned, hopefully also successful business which you have done fantastically well. How did that impact you joining that, and then starting to apply it,

Iain Wilson: 15:22

I guess the biggest thing that I had to learn was to step back and evaluate before I open my mouth, and understand the context in which I was dealing. And then I'm gonna have a fairly quick thinker, but at the same time, not necessarily say the first thing that came into your mind because it could offend somebody or could be taken the wrong way. And particularly for somebody where English is their second language, then you have to be doubly careful in how you express things, and how you communicate things. So that the, the understanding of that of that person is correct. And they take actually, on board what you're trying to say. So that's one of the biggest things I would say. And one of the tech takeaways that I had from from the course is like, evaluate first, who's in the room, who you're dealing with, who you're talking to, and understand life from their perspective, and particularly in, in dealing with Asian territories, the hierarchy of who you're, you're dealing with, you know, and are you talking to the right person, you know, are you? Are you talking to the translator or an interpreter or, you know, the office staff that don't have influence, so understanding, you know, positioning at a table at a banquet at the meal, who sits where, why and how those sorts of things are good to learn, if you want to deal with other cultures that that you're not familiar with. In the UK, nobody cares, you sit down the table you eat. That's not the case in China.

Marco Blankenburgh: 17:09

Yeah, those are great insights. And as I listened to you, it's it also seems that, you know, you want to get the deal done, which is more the transactional side. But you can't, you might get one deal done. But you can't sustain that unless you have invested in building healthy relationships.

Iain Wilson: 17:28

Everything is done around relationship. And I would say that that is true. In the UK, and right across, right across the world. And particularly in Asia, a lot is done around the dinner table, around spending time together about learning about people's families and their children and what's important to them in life. Not just let's get in, let's get the deal done. Let's get out of here.

Marco Blankenburgh: 18:01

Yeah, yeah. Now you're you're working with quite a complex web of relationships quite a fast It spans multiple continents. For people who have no idea about what happens behind the scenes in the in the musical industry in the manufacturing and distribution of musical instruments. Can you in like in 60 seconds for uninitiated, explain what you do and how I IVC music adds value into the music industry?

Iain Wilson: 18:37

Yeah, so I basically turned myself to make it easy for people to understand as an international matchmaker. So for brands in the music industry, they will come to me and say we want to make a guitar or ukulele, a new drum, a piano at this price point, or we want to design something new, and we need to find somewhere to have it made. They may have a little bit of experience themselves, they may not. And we help basically match them to the right manufacturing partners around the world. And we use our team to manage that entire production process for them. And QC the instruments etc before they get shipped to literally anywhere in the globe, around the globe. And then the other side of my business is that some of those companies that I work for from the sourcing perspective will also engage us as consultants to help them build our international sales network. In the past that would have been traditionally through just distributors for the main part. But now, post pandemic obviously the world has changed and we have now what's called omni channel distribution. So you can go through disturb distributors you can go through agents direct to retail Now is becoming more and more popular. And then of course, you have the massive online resellers, whether that's JD in, in China, or Amazon and the West, and like a good person on the BBC would say there are other providers available. So many, many, many more. So we help people find the right route to market effectively,

Marco Blankenburgh: 20:29

right, right. Now, throughout the ages, people who make musical instruments take a lot of pride in doing that, which then also typically leads to not having good words to say, for musical instruments that are made in other countries, for instance, you mentioned China, which other countries, do you have manufacturing happening

Iain Wilson: 20:59

right now in Eastern Europe and Czech Republic and China, in Vietnam, in India, they, and Indonesia, they would be the main ones as well, as well as the UK, of course. And we've started looking at some manufacturing now even back in the US in the US. And there are both tax and political reasons for that for some of those for some of those companies. So they would be the main areas that we would be manufacturing in right now. But the world changes, you know, in the past, it was Japan, Japan was the place when things in the West became too expensive, people were looking for cheaper labor option. At the very start. That was Japan, Japan became more expensive and move to South Korea, South Korea became more expensive, the vast majority of those people moved to Taiwan or into directly into China, then China is becoming more expensive now. And also, in certain aspects, Trump introduced a 25% tariff on goods coming from China into the US. So that affected a lot of US companies. So we have spent probably most of the pandemic time shifting and pivoting US companies in particular, either completely or partly out of China into other manufacturing areas. Now, and yes, there is always snobbery about, you know, you know, nothing good can come out of China, but they said that about Japan at the start, and frankly, the Chinese can make guitars as well as anybody in any other country and have gotten much better at it a much more efficient data is added, as you would expect, you know, from a Chinese manufacturer.

Marco Blankenburgh: 23:01

Yeah. So you're saying that there's been a shift in how people perceive quality produced in a certain country?

Iain Wilson: 23:10

Yes, there has been a shift, it does take time to be fair. And at the start, the, you know, Japanese production wasn't great compared to US production. Same thing for for South Korea. And the same for China. And it takes everybody time to learn their craft. And building a musical instrument is a craft. Certain parts of it could perhaps be done by computer or CNC, but not very much. So it's really very much hands on and it takes time to learn that.

Marco Blankenburgh: 23:41

So it sounds like that there is a need for knowledge transfer in order to to, to to increase that quality or reliability respect for for the instrument maker. How do you get involved in in that knowledge transfer? And how does the industry support that?

Iain Wilson: 24:01

Well, even with some of my staff, I mean, my right hand man, David Graham, was the production manager at Loudoun guitars when I was the international sales manager, we both left in 2006 and set up my my company at that point. And even then, they've got involved in training our team in China so that even in the very early days, they had very high standards for what we would expect of a guitar or a ukulele or whatever it was to go out the door. That was simply transferring knowledge. The risk is always you think, Okay, I'm transferring this knowledge will they then go and take that knowledge and do their own thing? They might on some have. But the reality is, they don't have the connections that we have in the rest of the world. So I would take them a lot of money and a lot of effort to develop those. So I don't see it as a big risk, frankly.

Marco Blankenburgh: 25:08

Now, one of the things you just mentioned the tariffs for importing from China into the US. And one of the reasons behind that is that some some people in in, in the business world and in politics claim that, oh, we've sold the farm we've, we've, we've allowed manufacturing to go abroad. And as a result, we lose our jobs. How does that play out in the music industry? You mentioned, of course, price, and labor charges are hugely important. But how do you see that play out in your work,

Iain Wilson: 25:43

there is a theoretical desire for manufacturing to come back to the UK or to the US or whatever. But when companies begin to look at the cost of the real cost of doing that, they realize that a maybe 499 guitar coming out of somewhere in Asia would all of a sudden have to become a 1499 guitar. And it takes them into a completely different sphere of the market that then as you go up or down the permit, depending how you want to look at it. There are less and less buyers for that. Right. So So I guess, there there's this theoretical desire to bring things back to countries for manufacturing. But when you look at the reality, it's not always often not the case that it can happen.

Marco Blankenburgh: 26:39

I didn't have this question on on, on my list. But as we were talking, you mentioned COVID, earlier on, has as COVID resulted in more people getting into music or less, what would have you seen,

Iain Wilson: 26:54

actually, we have seen that kind of boom and bust if you like, we saw a massive boom through the pandemic, because people were at home. A lot of governments like in the UK, were giving up furlough money for people to stay at home, paying their wages for them to do nothing, and nobody could travel for the most part. So people were spending money on Hobbies, and not just guitars, but other hobbies. Like you could not get a fishing rod in the UK, for example, during COVID time and a lot of you know, bicycles and other things just went crazy because people were home and we're looking for things to do. So guitars and ukuleles in particular that were easy to pick up and learn. were sold by in the masses during the COVID period that has since tailed off and cooled off. And currently unfortunately, there's an oversupply in the market that we're having to work through in 2023, but hopefully, hopefully even itself out again in 2024.

Marco Blankenburgh: 27:57

Yeah, yeah. Now you could probably tell many stories about building up those relationships, building trust across cultures, looking at quality assurance, the whole process of giving people feedback, if they might not have done such a great job, how to adjust that. Could you just highlight a few stories where your intercultural skills, your ability to build relationships across cultures have really allowed you to move forward better than most?

Iain Wilson: 28:34

Yeah, okay. I mean, I guess a funny story to start off with I visited a small, not a small city because Nolan, and that's more or less, a smaller city in China called Tai Chi at one time. And I was staying in their so called International Hotel, but I think I was probably the only international person that ever stayed there. And I was sitting in the lobby waiting for the driver to come pick me up and take me to the factory. And I had a little school child come up and actually start poking me. And I looked like I was an alien who just landed from Mars. And I find that quite funny, because I knew they'd probably never seen another foreign or particularly, you know, white person in their life. So they went away, I thought nothing more of it. And within five minutes, almost the entire school was surrounding me. And it was like a lifetime experience for them. And I thought, you know, this, while while it's funny, it's also important for kids because it also shows them that it's possible to interact with other people from from other nations, even if you don't know know them, even if you're a different color, even if you look strange if you're fat compared to them. I'm going to Hawaii, you know, whatever. So it's, I thought that that was a very interesting perspective, you know, from one of my early, early trips, in China. And I guess from dealing from a business perspective, again, it comes down to understanding the culture that you're in, if you're selling pianos, for example, you are normally suited and booted, you've got a tie on your, you know, your three piece suit, you look very dapper. And you will go into a meeting dressed like that, if you do that, in the guitar industry, people will take you incredibly, you know, think, you know, this is a weirdo, this, this guy's nuts, you know. And again, it comes down to understanding your audience and understanding the culture of who you're dealing with. And, you know, for your listeners, I really encourage them to, to look at who they're going to be meeting, look at who they're going to be dealing with, and understand what even what is the right dress, you know, to meet to meet those people in, because you can cut somebody off immediately by turning up in the wrong type of shirt or the wrong color or something that that's very offensive to their culture. So understanding those small initia. And detail is important and do a little bit of research before you start traveling for international business, understand, where you know where you're going, where you're going to who you're dealing with what the type of culture is. And when I started traveling, there wasn't that much on the Internet back then. But I can tell you, now you can get everything that you need. There and through, of course, one of your courses and understanding cultures, you know, around the world, and how to and how to deal with that. So that's just a couple of little snippets that I would give to your listeners, and I've dealt with, in I've been in South America, which is a very lively, vibrant music, you know, into a lot of dance and salsa, etc. Or you can go into a more conservative sort of Western European German style sort of music into the old Papa, what we call the old Papa, traditional German world, and you've been Dutch we'd understand a little bit of that. And then what or you can go into the sort of Scandinavian heavy rock or you know, that that sort of stuff. So, again, it's understanding who you're dealing with, what type of musician you're dealing with, what type of audience what type of business you're dealing with, and how. And that applies to an understanding, then the channels that you're working with, know if, if you're going in to see a Google and you wear a suit, probably they'll look at you weirdly, too, you know, because that's not their culture, or Amazon, or, you know, whoever. Whereas if you're going in to see some top level executives somewhere, maybe it's the right thing to wear a tie.

Marco Blankenburgh: 33:23

Yes. Yeah. And you're raising something that's, that's really crucial. It's not just the culture somebody comes from, but it's also the culture of the organization. And keeping that in mind. You mentioned dress code, some people dress as an expression of who they are. But I also hear you say that you dress in order to build that bridge of relationship that is equally important, or sometimes even more important.

Iain Wilson: 33:50

Yeah, particularly if you know, if you're going in from a business perspective, last thing you want to do is offend somebody by what you're, what you're wearing, or what you're what you're doing. So you really have to be careful and understanding other people's cultures.

Marco Blankenburgh: 34:07

And you've, you've mentioned that over time you build you build relationships with a number of people across specially Asia, and you mentioned Europe as well. Manufacturers, how many manufacturers are you in total, working with?

Iain Wilson: 34:25

We're dealing probably across the world with about 20 Different manufacturers, right. And then, with about 120 or 130 different routes to market, whether that be through distributors, agents or direct to retail, or some of the major online channels I've talked to talk about before

Marco Blankenburgh: 34:52

and listening to your it sounds like you you sort of need to culturally be on your toes. Too much every day, because you you move from one culture to another at the same time. In our certification, we keep on hammering on this that, you know, we always say the average Indonesia and the average Chinese doesn't really exist or a general things you can say about a certain culture. But it sounds like the type of work you do you need to go much more granular and really get to know you mentioned slowing down, doing your research, understanding the why of somebody's behavior. Could you maybe give an example where, you know, the average Indonesian or the average Chinese doesn't necessarily always apply, where you had to really, you know, go to a deeper level to understand the other party or the person you're working with?

Iain Wilson: 35:52

Yeah, I mean, if you take Indonesia, for example, the interesting thing about the guitar factories and a lot of electronic factories, even in Indonesia, is that they're owned by South Koreans. So, on the one hand, you're dealing with an Indonesian workforce, for the most part, what you're dealing with a South Korean management. So they're there in itself, you have two cultures coming together, that are very different. You have two, possibly three religions coming together and respecting those within the factory and giving people the time they need to express that, that that's been interesting. And looking at how the management style of that of those South Koreans, they have had to adapt to the expression and to the to the work rate of Indonesians, Indonesians are very, very hard working. But this is a massive generalization, of course, but they're not as fast as as Chinese tend to be. They work at a slower pace, but they're pretty accurate at what they have what they do. So understanding that setting expectations, and the whole area of hierarchy and respect comes into comes into play again, so take me as a Westerner than going into that situation, trying to understand how I get the best out of a South Korean management, while at the same time trying to influence an Indonesian workforce to get the best of the quality that I require, can be quite, can be quite challenging. And there are times quite frankly, when I've had to get my hands dirty myself and just get in there and, you know, generally show people how things can or should be done on some of our products. And if we have issues and quality issues, then showing them the worst thing you can do is make an Asian you know, lose face. So there's no point shouting at them no point, you know, disgracing them and even gently in front of the rest of their comrades. So you've got to actually get in there and physically be the person showing the best way to do things rather than criticizing. And I spent the best part of 10 days in a very hot and sweaty factory in Surabaya, in Indonesia, on the on the floor, showing people how, you know, to do things, the best way for the products that we needed to achieve for our, for our customer, that I worked in a sound studio in that factory, which had no air conditioning, no fan, it was, you know, crazy, you know, 3940 degrees like living in Dubai type thing, you know, the whole time but on the floor with no air conditioning, and actually visited that factory about two months ago. And I was glad to say that in that same studio, they now have air conditioning. So I wouldn't have a fear of going back. But again, it it's it's showing people how you know how to do things better rather than criticizing them for not reaching your level. That's that's very different, perhaps to a Western thinking in many in many times and even a hierarchical Asian thinking.

Marco Blankenburgh: 39:43

But that also requires a certain mindset where you need to you need to slow it down you need to actually invest time, but I almost I would also say it does require a certain amount of humility to to to invest at that level into the rules. Sure,

Iain Wilson: 40:01

yeah, well, I mean, even, even if I take China, I mean, I started traveling to China in 2003. But I didn't actually start doing business until around 2008. That's a massive investment. Yeah. But that investment on that time was using doing exactly that it was building relationships with the right partners, many of whom are still my partners today, because I had invested time, many of whom that would jump through great hoops to ensure that my customers are happy, even some, for Christmas business, I've even flown in containers of guitars, to make sure they don't lose the business, rather than putting on a ship. So, you know, that's the sort of relationship that can only be developed with time.

Marco Blankenburgh: 40:52

And if I can just put you on the spot, if, if you can think of one of those partners that you've worked with, for so long. If if I would ask them, who's in tell me, you know, what is it like to work with him? What would they say? If you can think of maybe one person, what would he or she say?

Iain Wilson: 41:11

I think he would say I'm a straight shooter, I, you know, I tell. I tell it as it is, but I am also fair, I will work with the factory to try to solve issues, I'll work with my customers, also to try to solve issues if they come up. And even today, one of our customers in the UK, checked a couple of guitars, he wasn't overly happy. So I flew one of my guys out there to check it out. That's an investment. That's his time. That's my, you know, my money. But I want this customer, at the end to be happy with the guitars and to be happy with the experience of working with IBC.

Marco Blankenburgh: 41:54

Now, recently, you had an exciting thing happened, you actually won the king's award for enterprise in the UK. And that's still in the press. I was I was just checking it out this morning here. And I thought, Wow, this keeps on going if people. Yes, so. So what was it like? I think there's 150 companies that get the award, if I'm not mistaken, it

Iain Wilson: 42:20

was 48 companies, the award itself has been run for I think around 57 years by the Queen. This is actually the first year for obvious reasons that became the Kings award. We actually applied for the ward two days before the King, the Queen passed away. And it's a fairly arduous process that you have to go through to be honest, to get to the point where you're even shortlisted and considered as being on the shortlist. And then you have a massive waiting period, because they always announce it on the Queen's birthday in April. And we were made aware of it in early April that we had won. And it was it's a massive honor and a massive prestige for us as a company, there's absolutely no cash involved, unfortunately, but you couldn't buy the the price and the prestige that it brings. And we get, we're permitted to use the royal kings enterprise symbol for the next five years on our communication. And you will see different things coming up over this year that will link IBC with with the Kings award and September I will be 30 years in the business. So there'll be more more things happening over the course of this year. And I also get to go to Buckingham Palace at some point and to attend a reception there either with the king or somebody else from from the royal family. That's that was actually the most disappointing part from my wife. Because in the past, it's always been two people that were allowed to attend. But since COVID, they've changed it to one person from the business. So my wife is somewhat stoked about that. But that nothing to nothing we can do. So we're going to go as a family, we're going to take five days in London, celebrated together as a family but only myself unfortunately, I'll get to get go to Buckingham Palace this time.

Marco Blankenburgh: 44:35

Right? And when you think of, you know, 30 years in the industry you're a pretty level headed guy. But it is a significant award to receive. So so how does it impact you? What does it what does it communicate to you?

Iain Wilson: 44:54

Well, it communicates the hard work that myself and my team have put in over over the years, you know, 30 years in any industry is what you call longevity. It's, you know, we've stuck it out, we've stuck out the, you know, the crash in 2008. And, you know, the, the pandemic, and you know, we're, we're still alive, we're still kicking, we're still trying to develop the business and take it to higher places even. And, in fact, my wife asked me this question at breakfast this morning. And she made this comment. And she said, You know, I really hope this isn't the pinnacle of your career, but it's just the start. And when you look at that 30 years in, you kind of go yes, we have achieved a lot. The prize and the award is an amazing accolade. And I can't underestimate that. But I'm 55 and I no means done, you know, I have a lot more than I want to achieve in my life. And I intend to stay in the music industry and, and do that and develop products and manufacturing and international distribution for many customers around the world.

Marco Blankenburgh: 46:13

Now, there's a lot of, there's a lot of talk in, in learning and development space around global leadership. One of our people in our network did some research on how many competencies and skills have been identified that supposably make you a better global leader, his list ended at 664 competencies and skills, which is a humongous list. You you've you've really succeeded in traversing the globe and turning that into a successful business, being culturally agile as a as a business leader and an intrapreneur. What would you say to other leaders? What? What do they need?

Iain Wilson: 46:59

Yeah, never think that you've arrived. Because that is your that's your signal that you're going into reverse? Actually, when you are, you're going to stagnate. So, for example, last year, I invested time in what was called a help to grow management program at the Bill Clinton School of Management at Queen's University in Belfast. Now, that was a time that in reality I didn't have, but you never have time to study, and you never have time to do certain things. But I always believe that learning is important. And understanding how you can do things better is important. I'm working on a weekly basis, for example, with an action coach that is helping in certain aspects of the business, holding me to account to make sure certain things happen. And again, it's a learning process, it's an investment it's taking to invest the money in paying for a coach, it's investing time. But it has us, you know, you've seen and I've seen with this award, it's paid massive, massive benefits. So I would say to any global leader, don't think that you've made it and also learn and invest time to interact with with other global leaders too, whether that's in one of your programs in Dubai, whether it's your local Chamber of Commerce, the Federation of Small Business, or whatever it is, you know, take time to network with other like minded people that you can rub against, that you can learn from, it might be a completely different industry. You can still learn things from from other people pick up little snippets of of information, or you think you know what, I never thought of that. And that's putting yourself in those positions, is the best way to better yourself, I believe as a global leader.

Marco Blankenburgh: 49:11

Wonderful. So you already mentioned at 55, you're not done. Your wife said to you, I hope this is not the pinnacle. What what are you dreaming of?

Iain Wilson: 49:23

I want to take the business to a much higher level. So I want to be the company that is known in the music industry as being your best partner for both sourcing on an international trade. And, you know, I have aspirations and dreams of developing some of my own brands at some some time and when the time's right and that's something that I'm actively looking at and always have in the back of my mind. It's always one of those things. Well, you know, you spend a lot of your life advising consult holding for other companies, how about you do it yourself for yourself and that's always, always playing in the back of my mind. So I'm I'm strongly considering various areas right now as to how that could happen.

Marco Blankenburgh: 50:13

Fantastic. Well, I think we could talk for hours, especially hearing more of your, your stories, your business stories, working across the globe, thank you so much for for joining us, and for inspiring us because you, you are truly a well seasoned global business entrepreneur. And it's beautiful to hear how you've turned that into adding value across the whole value chain within the music industry. So thank you for for telling your story. And yeah, it's

Iain Wilson: 50:50

been great to talk again and contact again. And I really hope that I genuinely hope that I can come back to Dubai and get involved in one of your courses again soon.

Marco Blankenburgh: 51:00

Fantastic. And when people want to get in contact with Ian, we will share the contact information in the notes section of this podcast. So you want to get connected with with em or with with ABC music, then find those details in the notes section. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of the cultural agility podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, share it with someone. Best way to help us out is by leaving a review on your favorite podcast, app or channel. Force forward and recommend this podcast to people around you. As always, if any of the topics we discussed today intrigue you, you will find links to articles discussing them in greater depth in the podcast notes. If you would like to learn more about intercultural intelligence and how you can become more culturally agile, you can find more information and hundreds of articles at knowledge works.com Special thanks to Jason Carter for composing the music on this podcast and to the whole knowledge works team for making this podcast a success. Thank you Anita Rodriquez, Ara as this backyard Raji Suraj. And thanks to VIP and George for audio production, Rosalyn Raj for scheduling and Caleb Strauss for marketing and helping produce this podcast